This is interesting.
By David Willey
BBC News, Rome
A fresco painting by a Renaissance master which once decorated the bedroom of Pope Alexander VI in the Vatican has gone on show in Rome.
A leading Italian art historian and curator says he has documentary proof that it was once part of a much larger painting depicting the aged Pope kneeling in front of his youthful mistress, Giulia Farnese.
This is an unusual example of “damnatio memoriae” – a Latin phrase meaning “damnation of memory”.
It refers to a custom dating back to antiquity – the attempted removal of a famous person from the historical record for reasons of dishonour.
Roman emperors used to order the destruction or removal of portraits or statues of disgraced members of their family.
Debauched lifestyle
Pope Alexander VI, the notorious Borgia Pope from Spain, discredited the Church by his debauched lifestyle.
He fathered seven children, including Lucrezia and Cesare Borgia, by at least two mistresses.
Such was Alexander VI’s unpopularity that when he died – perhaps by poisoning, perhaps from the plague – in 1503 at the age of 72, the priests of St Peter’s Basilica at first refused to accept his body for burial.
Pope Alexander’s portrait, commissioned from Pinturicchio to decorate the papal bedchamber inside the Apostolic Palace at the Vatican, was later hacked away from the wall, most likely during the 17th Century, and was believed lost until very recently.
The painting showed Alexander kneeling in front of the Child Jesus and the Virgin Mary, whose face, according to documentary evidence from several contemporary sources, was that of one of his mistresses, a handsome young Roman noblewoman called Giulia Farnese.
The small segment of this much larger original fresco painting now on display is an exquisite portrait of the child Jesus. The child has a halo of pure gold painted around his head.
This extraordinarily fine painting came onto the international art market three years ago and was bought by an Italian industrialist from Perugia.
Mystery hands
There are five hands shown on the painting. Professor Franco Nuccirelli from Perugia, the curator of the exhibition, who rediscovered the painting, told me he believes that two of the hands belong to the missing figure of the Virgin Mary, who clasps the child gently around his waist.
The child has one hand raised in a blessing and holds a golden orb surmounted by a cross in the other.
The fifth hand, according to Prof Nuccirelli, is that of the missing figure of Pope Alexander himself. His hand gently fondles the child’s right foot.
We know exactly what the picture in the Pope’s bedroom looked like. It was copied by a 17th-Century artist called Pietro Facchetti while still in situ.
This copy is now in the possession of another Roman noble family. Prof Nucciarelli’s proof that this fragment belongs to the lost masterpiece of Pinturicchio looks very convincing.
The famous art historian and scholar Giorgio Vasari, writing in the second edition of his Lives of the Artists in 1568, mentioned that Pinturicchio’s painting was “over the door of a room in the Apostolic Palace”.
It was, said Vasari, “a portrait of Signora Giulia Farnese with the countenance of Our Lady, and in the same picture the head of Pope Alexander adoring her”.
Frustratingly, there is only one surviving portrait of Giulia Farnese, whose brother Alessandro Farnese later became Pope Paul III.
The portrait is in the Museum of the Castel Sant’Angelo in Rome, where it is attributed to the Roman painter Luca Longhi.
It shows a young woman rather wistfully seated in a mountain landscape next to a unicorn – the fabled beast is one of the heraldic emblems of the Farnese family.
I asked Prof Nucciarelli what had been the reaction from the Vatican to his discoveries.
“Naturally they are not very happy about publicity of this sort,” he said.
“But we have been in Alexander’s bedroom, which is one of the clearly identifiable rooms in the Borgia apartment of the Apostolic Palace.
“There is exactly the right space above the door where the painting would have fitted. But so far we have not received permission to examine the present state of the wall which is hidden by a tapestry.”
First mistress
Pope Alexander VI’s first and best known mistress was called Vanozza dei Cattanei.
She was the mother of Lucrezia and Cesare Borgia and several portraits of her are in existence.
You can see her tomb and a portrait bust in a rather dark side chapel inside the church of Santa Maria del Popolo in Rome.
After visiting the exhibition I went back to view her portrait which I had not looked at for some years. Decidedly matronly, I thought.
Vanozza had three husbands in addition to her relationship with Pope Alexander, by whom she bore four children altogether.
The nice thing about living in Rome is that most events here are historically well-documented. You can walk into any church to check the facts.
In Rome you actually touch history every day by simply walking down the street.
Nagulat ako sa post ngayon. Hindi ko akalain na ang paksa ay tungkol sa Pope na puno ng Simbahang Katoliko. Bagama’t marami akong alam at masasabi sa mga karumal-dumal ng mga ginawa ng mga Pari at Papa sa Roma simula pa noon unang panahon, wala akong lakas na loob na banggitin dito upang hindi masaktan ang mga debotong Katoliko. Pero sa panahon ngayon na bulgar na ang mga katiwalian at kasalanan ng mga pari at simbahan, ang ganitong paksa ay mabuti din pag-usapan. Dapat maging malawak ang isipan natin. Kailan lang ay inanunsiyo ng Papa na ang ibang mga grupong Kristiyano ay di tunay. Simbahang Katoliko lang ang tunay na sa Diyos. Isang direktang paghamon ito sa mga ibang relihiyon. Ano ang masasabi ng mga Protestante, LDS, INC at mga iba pa? Alam niyo ba na itong kasalukuyang Papa ang nagpalabas noon ng utos sa buong kaparihan sa mundo na dapat pagtakpan ang mga kasalanan ginawa ng mga Pari. Iyon ang dahilan kung bakit napakaraming iskandalo sa loob ng simbahan; mga paring gumagawa ng krimen lalo na’t seksual. At ang masaklap pa, kakaunti lang ang pinaparusahan. Karamihan ay inililipat lang sa ibang Parokya o ibang bansa.
Buti na lang dahil sa media ngayon na nagpalakas ng loob sa mga biktima, nasampahan ng kaso ang maraming pari. Kailan lang ay binayaran ng milyon ang mga biktima sa Los Angeles, USA. Diyan pala napupunta karamihan ang mga abuloy…ang pag-areglo sa mga kaso ng pari.
Ito pa ang dagdag: Magtataka ba kayo kung bakit maraming mestiso at mestisa sa atin. Sa mga artista lang ay mga guwapo at magaganda, matataas, mapuputi. Ang dahilan ay dahil may dugong kastila sila. Ang mga ninuno nila ay mga paring Kastila. Maraming Pilipina ang inanakan. Noon panahon, sinong maglalakas loob na magsumbong at magreklamo? Ang turing nila sa mga Pari ay si Kristo, Prinsipe ng langit. Kahit ngayon, maraming pamilya ang nawasak at pinili na lang tumahimik dahil sa takot at kahihiyaan. Dapat natin tandaan na ang mga ganito ay di lang sa Pilipinas naganap o nangyayari. Kahit na sa ibang bansa tulad ng Latin Amerika kung saan mga bansang Katoliko. Bakit nagkaganoon? Ang isa sa dahilan ay ang maling aral. Tulad na lang ng “Celibacy”. Bakit pagbabawalan ang mga pari na mag-asawa samantalang wala naman nakasulat si biblia na bawal? Dahil sa ganitong maling aral, hindi maiwasan matukso sa laman at makagawa ng krimen ang mga pari.
The priest is a priest of the Catholic Church. But, he is not the Church. So as the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church.
Every human being, that includes the priests do have free will. And God respects that free will. If they act against the Sanctification of their souls which is the will of God, certainly it will be punished. The Church heirarchy admits such faults. Those who have said goodbye to this world are now being punished because they did not act, behaved properly to sanctify their souls. Its not because they are priest they are already exempted from temptation.
Doon sa tanong na bakit ganoon? The spirit of Second Vatican Council has a lot to do with the very shallow spirituality of todays priests. I even experienced a priest telling me something which is wrong. Truly the stars have fallen but not all of them fell. This is written.
Those who asks for the grace of God to be spared from temptation will be more tempted. But he who perservers for the Glory of his King will be saved.
Pero hindi ba “infallible” ang Pope? Kung ganoon, hindi puwedeng magkamali. Pero kung susuriin mo ang kasaysayan ng simbahan, ilang Papa ang nagkamali at binago ang mga tuntunin ng simbahan? Hindi ba ang isa sa mga katibayan na ang isang iglesia ay tunay ay kung ano ang turo at paano mag-akay ng tupa ang mga pastor? Madaling gamitin dahilan na tao lang ang mga pari (kasama na ang lahat na mga pastor ng ibang relihiyon). Para malaman sa Diyos at sa may basbas ng Ispiritu Santo, tingnan mabuti ang mga gawain ng mga pastor o iyon mga nag-aalaga ng simbahan. Paano aakay ng isang bulag ang isang bulag din?
Tutoo, ang mga pari at mga kaanib ay mga tao. Hindi sila ang simbahan o iglesia. Pero nasa gawa at mga turo malalaman kung tunay o hindi. Nandoon na ako sa argumento mo at sang-ayon din ako ng bahagya. Kung ako ang tatanungin mo, ang ugnayan ko ay sa Diyos at wala nang iba pa. Kung minsan ay masasabi pa nga na parang isang negosyo at racket ang simbahan. Masakit ano? Kaya nga iniiwasan ko ang ganitong paksa. Iba na lang kaya ang magpatuloy nito at baka lalo lang ako makasakit ng damdamin. Magbabasa na lang ako ng komento ng iba.
The stories about the Papacy is one which makes a good reading not only of its historical values but how we could compare their lives then to the present day Popes. The reign of Pope Alexander VI was one replete with sins, nepotism, treachery, political vendetta and murders.
The portrait in the lower portion of the thread is that of Lucrezia Borgia. In fact the whole picture will is something that will make us realize that bold pictures was already in vogue in the ancient times and the distant past.
Should read: The portrait in the lower portion of the thread is that of Lucrezia Borgia. In fact the whole picture is something that will make us realize that bold pictures was already in vogue in the ancient times and the distant past.
Kaya nga nasabi ko, The spirit of Second Vatican Council has a lot to do with the present very shallow spirituality of the priests today. Wag natin tingnan ang gawain ng mga pari. Isang tanda ng pagiging banal ay yung kabanalan ng “founder”. At halimbawa ng pari ay yung nagtatag. Yung mga paring hindi nagpakabanal pinaparusahan na ngayon.
Sabi nga ni Archbishop Marcel Lefevre sa librong isinulat tungkol sa kanya. “When the time comes that I should appear to my Master, I don’t want to hear HIM these words when HE asks me, What did you do during your episcopacy? I don’t want to hear HIM say, “No, you did not do anything accept to help in the destruction of my Church.”
Pwede nating marinig ang mga pari na magsalita ng kabanalan pero mayroon tayong di natin nakikita mula sa kanila na taliwas sa kabanalan. His office remains as it is though his soul will not be justified by his office as a priest.
The Mystical Body of Christ is in Crisis. The stars have fallen but not all. If there were stars that have fallen before, far worst are the stars falling today.
Ang pagiging liberal ng mga kasalukuyang pari ay sumisira sa Simbahan ng Diyos. Pero yan ay pagbabayaran nila sa kabilang buhay.
The Pope is infallible only in matters of faith like in dogmas. Tao rin sila gaya natin. But when the dogma of the Assumption and the Immaculate Story, we believe them..and this is for members of the catholic church. For those who are not catholic they don’t have to believe it..
My friends,listen! The Pope and the priest are human being with an extraordinary thinking. They can turn fiction to truth, because they have master that deceitful deception, but, does not mean it is not true. To me, They are a person living in an imaginative world of their own. Their imagination and truth- telling is an oxymoron to me. I only go to church because it helps me pay attention to my life. I seek my spiritual blessings directly to God, without any third party or a fixer involve to charge me some huge commissions. Religion is not simply a frivolous activity for those who believe.
We struggle about religions, which one is right, we all seek the right church on our souls for salvation, Being a catholic, Iglesia ni Cristo, El Shaddai, The Benevolent Church of Pidalista, etc,etc. They are all a good business venture to a person who is in throne. The bucks goes to his golden baul. Being a followers of this religion our imagination over theology is narrow. We go to church and we sit in chair and we only say, Haleluya and Amen! We are all under the hypnosis power of the religious minister. Our uneasiness about imagination among us lead to a narrow view of God and gifts he has given to mankind, it opens things up so that we can grow into maturity to worship and adore, follow the trust and exclaim and honor. Our belief in God keeps our feet on the ground, imagination lifts our head into the clouds.
Our religious belief to Christ,Muhammed,Buddha,Papa,Mike Villarde and Manalo or even Ruben Ecleo can be tainted with evil or infuse with good, wether it is good or evil depends on the heart of the person doing the devotion. Does it makes any difference to others?
To me,I don’t believe in Pope,priest or minister.I believe in God and go directly to him and save my bucks on the fishing net that goes around in Catholic Church on Sunday mass.Pamabayad lang ng settlement ni Father iyon on his sexaual harrasment case.
Rose
Tama ka, those whose religious beliefs is steadfast, no amount of papal or priest’s scandals in our midst can and should shake our faith.
Debates on which religion is good or best has no ending. Most oftentimes, it is getting out of bounce because no one will give an inch to what the others are saying. Whatever religion we have, we will not go wrong if we will follow the teachings of Jesus Christ in simple terms: Gumawa tayo ng mabuti at mahalin natin ang ating kapwa tao.
Cocoy
Totoong lahat n a ang relihiyon ay iisa ang patutunguhan, belief that there’s one God. At paano natin mapapatunayan that we have that belief? Do what God expects us to do and I repeat: Gumaya tayo ng mabuti at mahalin natin ang ating kapwa tao.
Gumawa tayo ng mabuti at mahalin natin ang ating kapwa tao.
Hindi sapat ang mabuting gawa para maligtas. Basahin mo ang talata tungkol kay Cornelius na mapag kawanggawa pa. Kahit na anong sama ng puno ay okay lang ba? Kung ganoon, sumunod ka na din kay tiyanak, Gloria Arroyo. Huwag natin dayain ang atin mga sarili. Paano ka susunod sa guro mo sa eskuwela kung mali ang mga turo at ginagawa niya?
Kung lahat ng relihiyon ay tutoo di wala nang hindi tutoo. Kung lahat ay isa lang ang patutunguhan ay bakit ang sabi ng Diyos piliin ang dating daan at iyon ang patungo sa kaligtasan? Iyan ang mga argumento sa mga sinabi mo kapag makatagpo mo ang pilosopo. Pero tulad ng sinabi ko, ako at Diyos lang ang may ugnayan. May iba nga nagsasabing ang lahat na tungkol sa relihiyon ay gawa-gawa lang. Ginawa lang ng tao para maging maayos ang mundo. Kung walang batas ng tao at Diyos ay magulo ang mundo. Inimbento lang daw ang mga aral.
Artchi says: Kung ganoon, sumunod ka na din kay tiyanak,
Who are you tell me sumunod ako kay tiyanak? Whoever you are, I am just posting my comments here and you should not dwell into it. Get focus on your comments and be good at it but refrain adversial potshots on anyone.
Artchi,
If you don’t have any interest in the topic, maybe you should keep quiet.
Huwag na natin ipako uli si Kristo sa mga kasalanan ng iilan. If your a Catholic lets support the Church as a whole. Huwag natin hayaan ang demonyo ang mamayani to destroy the church dahil kulang na ang oras niya. Tungkol sa ibang paniwala ipagdasal na lang natin sila, kahit na ginagamit sila sa pag destroy ng church natin. Remember ang promise ni Jesus kay Saint Peter.Matt 16:18. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Acer, ito yung problema.
Yung mga sumisira sa simbahan nakapasok na sa loob. Maraming anay ang nasa loob ng simbahan.
Gayun pa man, sabi ni Kristo, Ako’y papasainyo hanggang sa katupusan ng mundo.
Folks, allow me to put my two-cents worth here…
In the beginning there was NOTHING but the THOUGHT [Holy Spirit, if you may] – Genesis
In the beginning there was NO MATTER but SPACE. Space is NOT NOTHINGNESS but a vast sea of electrons. Each electron possesses energy and a certain level of intelligence. Electrons move and collide. Collisions increases with time until the world as it is today was formed. – Science
Man is basically Carbon and 70% Water [hydrogen and oxygen]. When we “die” we don’t go elsewhere but here. Our Carbon will return to the Earth, absorbed thru photosynthesis and find itself in plants. These plants eventually are eaten by animals, which in turn may find its way into ones table. This man “eating” our Carbon is also breathing our Hydrogen and Oxygen. There you have it – the Circle of Life.
You and me are just composed of men before us. We are of one body.
So the question, who created us? GOD or Nature?
God Himself is Nature Herself. This is the simple truth. And we don’t need any Church to tell us so.
Only when we appreciate the beauty, wisdom and the immense power of Nature shall we truly be free.
Once everyone realizes that, there won’t be any wars, famine, poverty, greed, diseases. No more countries. No more multi-flavored religions. Every man living all the world.
“Nothing is Created; Nothing is destroyed. Everything were just transformed. – Heraclitus
This simple truth is what Jesus Christ was saying all along.
Love your neighbor as you love yourself. Love God above anything else Why?
Again, we are of one body. We are one with Nature as we are one with God.
But the Early Church felt threatened and they murdered Him.
Napakabanal at napakaganda ng Kristiyanismo, siguro kung naipatupad lamang ang “tunay” na Kristiyanismo, mapayapa sana ng ating Bayan at ng Sangdaigdigan.
Art. Atrstee, Artchi, I delete senseless comments. It destroys the flow of discussion.
Maybe you should only comment if you have something sensible to share with bloggers here.
History is peppered with scandals. The Church and other religious denominations were not exempt. For a long long time, religions proved to be driving force of nations – they made and broke kings; that was one reason why Napoleon ‘grabbed’ the crown from Pius VII and crowned himself Emperor. He didn’t want the Vatican to have the upper hand – the gessture was symbolical.
But I agree with Turning Point, being a Catholic is all about FAITH in God. All the bad personas, clergy or not, who did things in the Church’s name are part of history but a Catholic person’s faith in God need not be confused with even the most sinister events in Catholic Church’s history.
As Rose said of the infallibility of the Pope and the dogmas of the Catholic Church, “For those who are not catholic they don’t have to believe it..”
On the sixth and last day of the creation “God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him” (Genesis 1:27); and “the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul” “God created man of the earth, and made him after his own image”. Brothers and Sister, we are created with a purpose.
EPHESIAN 1:11:12, I chose you when I planned the creation.
How great is the love of the Lord in all his creature,He want our life to be fruitful and beautiful. Trust Him, Love HIM with all our hearts, minds and strength. Yun mga scandal na ginawa ng mga iilan ay pinagbayaran na ng Dugo ni Jesus at binabayaran pa hanggang sa the end of this world. I hope that we dont hurt HIM again. If you are a Catholic, please read The Passion of Christ by Anne Emmerich. GOD bless you all.
“Ito pa ang dagdag: Magtataka ba kayo kung bakit maraming mestiso at mestisa sa atin. Sa mga artista lang ay mga guwapo at magaganda, matataas, mapuputi. Ang dahilan ay dahil may dugong kastila sila. Ang mga ninuno nila ay mga paring Kastila. ”
Frankly, who bloody cares? Good on them priests I say!
Ate Ellen, ang pangalan artchi ay ako, si artsee. Nagbago ako ng kaunti ng pangalan dahil hindi ako makapasok sa blog. Pero itong “art” dito hindi po ako. Huwag ninyong ipagkamali na si art ay artsee or artchi. Pinili ko ang art-chi dahil ate ko si chit. Etong isang art na ito ginagaya lang ako.
Nasabi niyo na kung wala akong interest sa paksa tumahimik na lang ako. Lahat ng paksa dito ay may interest ako. Kaya nga po ako sumagot at nag-komento. Nagulat at nagtaka lang ako sa klase ng paksa ngayon tungkol sa iskandalo ng mga Papa sa Roma. Kaya nga matindi ang reaksiyon ng mga iba. Sana nandito si Ate Ystakei at maraming masasabi siya tungkol sa pari at Papa sa Vatican. Ate Anna, who cares o anong pakialam? Aba, dapat makialam ang mga Katoliko dahil pinuno ng simbahan ang pinag-uusapan. Hindi ba tayo makikialam sa nag-aalaga ng atin mga kauluwa?
I’m a liberal Catholic, meaning kesehodang ano ang gawin ng mga nagpapatakbo ng simbahan, but I hold dear in my heart and practice the good teachings of Catholicism.
Walang kwenta ang anumang relihiyon kung hindi isinasagawa ang mga teachings/tenets nito.
Artchi,
“Hindi ba tayo makikialam sa nag-aalaga ng atin mga kauluwa?”
Are you referring to my comment to the kastila priests who sired halfcaste castillans in Pinas during the Spanish occupation of Pinas? If so, then I repeat, who bloody cares? Those guys are long gone, not even their dust exists anymore – why pin their ‘sins’ on the Catholics of today? Why should you allow those kastila priests to “makialam sa pag-aalaga ng atin mga kauluwa?”
And if you are referring to Pope Alexander VI, I think you will find that Pope Alexander VI IS NO LONGER “nag-aalaga ng atin mga kauluwa” either… the debauched fellow is also long gone, gone, pfft that we don’t even know where his soul is today! So what has he got to do with the saving of the souls of Catholics of today?
Lastly, if you really want to know, I do not believe one should entrust the saving of one’s soul to anyone, except to God Himself. The current pope, Pope Benoît is there by edict to save souls but by gum, he can only do so much – you help yourself, God will help you! This over reliance on others is what is getting the world into a deep shit!
I also believe that a person should choose his/her own religion/path that which will support his level of understanding. It is always to the advantage of a human being to follow and practice his faith in order not to go stray in all or some aspects of life.
Hindi tayo ipagkakanulo ng ating sariling faith kailanman, maliban kung ang paniniwala ay satanismo na religion ni Gloria Arroyo!
Chi,
Idem! The members of the Catholic clergy are human beings too – they are not infallible in the strictest sense.
The sins of the members of the clergy, past and present should not be imputed on the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church IS A CONGREGATION of believers in the Catholic teachings and doctrines that extend beyond the confines and walls of Catholic convents, seminaries and abbeys!
Personally, I try to abide by the teachings of my Church, try to follow the Catholic doctrine (although I don’t believe I’m succeeding) but I don’t systematically put the blame on the clergy for bad things that happen to me or the wrong decisions I make.
Okay naman ang komento mo, Ate Anna. Pero ang tanong ko sa iyo: May pagkaiba ba ang mga paring Kastila noon sa mga pari ngayon kahit na anong lahi? Marami din mga babae ngayon ang naanakan ng mga paring Amerikano at Pilipino. Kalat ang ganitong mga iskandalo ngayon. Kaya nga may mga kaso ang mga pari ng “child molestation”, “rape” at kung ano pa. Ilan siglo na pinagtakpan ang mga iskandalong ito? Hindi na bago iyan, Ate Anna. HIndi maituturing na paninira sa kanila sa simbahan dahil tutoo naman. Kung sa bagay, hindi naman sa simbahang Katoliko ang may problema. Kahit na mga Evangelist ay sangkot din pati na sa panloloko at yumaman. Gaya ng sinabi ko, buksan natin ang atin mga isipan sa ganitong paksa at huwag natin ipe-personal. May dahilan kung bakit lumabas ngayon dito sa blog ang ganitong paksa. Siguro udyok ng Banal na Ispiritu ang nangyari at pinag-uusapan natin ngayon…
“Hindi ba tayo makikialam sa nag-aalaga ng atin mga kauluwa?”
Ako, hindi! Ako lang ang nakakaalam kung saan ko gustong dalhin ang aking kaluluwa base sa teachings na aking pinili!
Sabi ng pinsan kong monsignor nuon, “hoy, palagi kang magsimba dahil hindi ko maisasalba ang iyong kaluluwa”.
Sagot ko, “pwede mo akong ayudahan pero wala kang magagawa sa aking kaluluwa…akin lang ito”.
Re: May pagkaiba ba ang mga paring Kastila noon sa mga pari ngayon kahit na anong lahi?
Don’t know but I never met Kastila priests of the Spanish occupation forces in Pinas so can’t really tell you but I think there may still be some similarities if I were to believe what you say (and I do coz they’ve been all over the papers) but I suggest you read my follow on comments to understand what I mean by not imputing the sins of some erring clergy on the Catholic Church.
Tama Ate Chi, tayo ang makakapagligtas ng atin mga sarili…at siyempre sa pamamagitan ni Kristo (hindi mga Pari).
As to your “Gaya ng sinabi ko, buksan natin ang atin mga isipan sa ganitong paksa at huwag natin ipe-personal.”
“ipe-personal???” Hah! If I were taking it personally, I wouldn’t even rebutt your opinion – I wouldn’t talk to you at all!
Like Chi, I am a liberal Catholic; I don’t believe the Catholic Church has the monopoly of truth about God. It is a religion.
In that sense, I respect other faiths, other religions, other beliefs and try not to put other churches down in the same manner, I believe they SHOULD NOT put mine down, not put my religion down and not put my beliefs down or there will be hell to pay…
“…tayo ang makakapagligtas ng atin mga sarili…at siyempre sa pamamagitan ni Kristo (hindi mga Pari).”
Masyadong limitado ang pananaw na ito para sa akin.
Si Kristo ay para sa mga Christians kasama na ang Katoliko. Pero sa simpleng komento, ang pagka-Diyos ni Kristo o ang tinatawag na “Christ Consciousness” ay totoo rin sa lahat ng Inspirations sa lahat ng tinatawag na world’s greatest traditions/religions.
Therefore, para sa akin ay naililigtas ang sarili base sa kanyang sariling magagandang gawa na inspired ng “Diyos” na kanyang pinaniniwalaan.
puwede nating dalhin ang ating paniniwala nang hindi na kailangan pang makinig ng sermon ng mga nagsasabing sila ang mga alagad na kumakatawan sa diyos. batid at alam na nating ang mga tumatao sa simbahan ay lulong din sa kung ano anong katiwalian at ang pagbatikos sa kanila ay isang dahilan ng pagkalihis ng ating pananampalataya.
tama kayo sa pagsasabing tayo lamang ang nakakaalam kung saan natin dadalhin ang ating kaluluwa at walang sino mang makapagpapagaan sa ating mga kasalanan kahit pa ang santo papa.
maaari nating idulog sa panginoong diyos ang ating pangungumpisal nang hindi kailangan pang idaan sa iba.
kung nagkasala at nais kamtin ang kapatawaran ng langit, magtika.
Tama ka artchi..Jesus Christ is our Savior at walang iba pa. If you are a Christian then you believe in Jesus Christ. Ang mga Jewish, they are still waiting for their Messiah..I believe that God planted in each of us the seed of faith- in our relationship with Him. It is for each one of us to make it grow with the help of ministers, priests, rabbis, etc. These ministers are there to help us, just as Jesus came to do so. When Jesus healed He always said..”your faith has healed you”. “I have never seen a faith as this..”? I am a catholic and I follow the rules of the catholic church..because I believe that this church will help me go to where God is. I look at it this way. “God is up on top of a mountain…and all of us want to be with Him from north, south, east or west. So we look up to Him from different views..depende kung anong side ka ng mountain. But the more important thing is we all want to be with Him. Hindi ba? Yong mga pari at iba pa, bahala sila sa kaluluwa nila. Kaya lang they probably have greater responsibility..hindi ba ang sabi nga “When much is given to you, much is expected of you”? Magkitakita tayo sa taas, when He calls us to meet Him. Sigue ha..mahuhuli na ako sa funeral mass ng isang kaibigan..a true Christian..51 years old and he is the new kid in God’s kingdom. He died coaching the youth group of Couples of Christ, playing basket ball.. natumba at yon tinawag siya. Just the day before he died, he told his wife..that working for God, in every way he can small ways as they may seem, he feels like an eagle soaring..up high. Atenean talaga..paano na nga yon? “Fly high blue eagle fly and carry your flag across the sky..”
Pero hindi ba ang turing natin mga Katoliko sa pari ay kinakatawan ni Kristo? Ang Papa sa Roma ay kumakatawan kay San Pedro at si San Pedro ay alagad ni Kristo. Sa argumento naman na wala pa tayo noon ng panahon ng Kastila kaya hindi natin alam kung pareho ang mga iyon sa mga pari ngayon, aba nag-iba na ba ang suot at asal ng mga pari? Iba na ba ang turo at paniniwala? Komo wala tayo noon unang panahon, hindi na ba tayo naniniwala na may isang Dr. Jose Rizal at siya’y pinatay dahil sa sulsol ng mga pari. Si Rizal ang isa sa mga lumaban sa mga aral ng simbahan at sa mga kasalanan ginawa ng mga Pari. Hindi lang si Rizal ang paniwalaan natin, nasa kasaysayan po iyan hindi lang sa mga libro pati na sa mga lumang dokumento. Ate Chi, si Kristo nga ay para sa mga Kristiyano (diyan nga galing ang salitang “Christian”). Pero may tunay na Kristiyano at hindi. May tunay na mangangaral at may mga bulaang propeta. Hindi matatapos itong usapan natin dahil sadyang maselan ang paksa.
Re: “Komo wala tayo noon unang panahon, hindi na ba tayo naniniwala na may isang Dr. Jose Rizal at siya’y pinatay dahil sa sulsol ng mga pari. Si Rizal ang isa sa mga lumaban sa mga aral ng simbahan at sa mga kasalanan ginawa ng mga Pari. Hindi lang si Rizal ang paniwalaan natin, nasa kasaysayan po iyan hindi lang sa mga libro pati na sa mga lumang dokumento.”
What’s your point? That the sins of those Spanish friars who killed Rizal and the GOMBURZA should be imputed on the Catholic Pope today, on the Catholic Congregation of today, lay and otherwise?
That will be taking vindictiveness a bit too far… I sure refuse to take any crap imputing the sins of those Spanish friars on me, a member of the Roman Catholic Church today. It’s like saying that the whole European population today, particularly today’s Germans should continue to apologize to the Jews and feel eternal guilt for the dastardly acts of Hitler and his generals for murdering 6 million Jews, Gypsies and other non-Aryans Hitler didn’t fancy.
Faith is not a monopoly of a single religion. Faith is supposed to be practiced, otherwise it’s not faith! Yun lang.
Re: Iyan pagbabawal sa pag-aasawa ang isa sa mga dahilan kung bakit nakakagawa ng mga kasalanang seksuwal ang mga pari.
Those who cannot follow the rule are free not to join the priesthood. The priesthood is not the ONLY WAY to show one’s devotion to Christ and the teachings of the Catholic Church.
The Pope and his priests, the Buddhist monks, the pastors and ministers, etc. all represent or misrepresent the respective faiths they embraced. They are human like us, free to make a choice.
That’s the beauty of becoming a human, we are gifted with a functioning brain to use it wisely or not.
As for me, naniniwala akong NO RELIGION will ever save a person. Only his FAITH and ACCEPTANCE of JESUS CHRIST!
I want to share the following verses in one of my research works that I share with other people who have different beliefs.
Matthew 23:2-4
“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to
lift a finger to move them.”
John 20:30-31 God’s messages concerning man’s salvation which are ALREADY WRITTEN:
“Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing youn may have life in His name.”
2 Thessalonians 2:14-15 Gospel passed on by word of mouth or by letter:
“He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then brothers, stand firm and hold on to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.”
I think a lot of people nowadays are getting smarter and have the sense to not blindly follow a religion. It is Catholic dogma to believe that the pope is infaliable, yet a lot of catholics today will reject this belief. More people to include married couples reject the church’s stand on the use of condoms and artificial contraception. A lot of muslims in Dubai and Jordan reject sharia law and choose not to follow the koran and their clerics to the letter. And I think this is a good thing.
Mu lifelong dream is to become POPE – if and when the celibacy requirement is rescinded.
Re: Roman emperors used to order the destruction or removal of portraits or statues of disgraced members of their family.
Enchanted Kingdom Empress Gloria may have destroyed evidence or removed evidence in her involvement in the 2004 electoral fraud. The same measures what disgraced bogus President Gloria Arroyo doing to hide her cheating, lying and robbing the true mandate of the people. She wants the Filipino people to forget the Hello Garci political scam and moves on. The corruption-tainted Diosdado Macapagal Highway should be destroyed. History will be the final arbiter her place in history.
Diego K. Guerrero, that is exactly what mananggal did. The computer records at the office of Management and Budget were burned in a suspicious fire. These records show how much the midget plundered for her election campaign. The records of election cheating were also burned at the COMELEC offces. The fire station only five minutes away allowed the records to burn. Next time … pinoys will burn manananggal herself at bagumbayan.
pedro..not to use the condoms or artificial conception are not dogmas of the catholic church. They are teachings of the church. They are two diffirent things- dogmas and teachings. For instance the dogma of the Immaculate Conception that the Blessed Mother was conceived without original sin..catholics believe this…faith. the teaching of the church is we should believe it and they tell us why we should ..teachings. Iba ang teachings of the catholics. iba ang muslims, etc. on how we should increase and grow in our faith in God..through the ministers, priests,rabbis, etc.
Anna: The sins of the members of the clergy, past and present should not be imputed on the Catholic Church…..
Indeed, They are not the church, they only represent it and whatever sins they commit it’s their personal choice and it should not be a reason for a person to hate and leave the church. The church has nothing to do with any immoral acts, in fact it is against it’s teachings. I know and meet so many people, in fact some friends and relatives leave the catholic church because of the immoral acts of priests/bishops even dating back to 100 years ago, and I really feel sad about it. So if one hates and leaves the church because of the sinful acts of the ministers/priest, it’s like hating the Philippines because of the killing, cheating, lying and stealing of gloria arroyo, in which case our beloved country has nothing to do with it.
Rose and Florry;
Our Christian faith and beliefs were revealed to us through the Bible, and if we read and understand the holy scriptures carefully we can come to a whole idea that it was indeed written.
We need to take a look at the roots of believing in Jesus faith, The people leading to and following Him were far from squeaky clean elitist. If anything besides that they are an outcast.
God was displeased about Adam and Eve and we inherited a mortal sin. Adam was a failure. Noah was a drunk. Abraham was too old. Isaac was a daydreamer. Jacob was a liar. Leah (not Leah Navarro) was ugly. Josephwas abused. Moses had a stuttering problem. Gideon was afraid. Samson had long hair, and was a womanizer, My,My,My Delilah. Rahab was a prostitute . Jeremiah was too young. David had an affair and was a murderer, He slayed Goliath. Elijah was suicidal. Isaiah preached naked. Jonah ran from God. Naomi was a widow. Job went bankrupt. Johnthe Baptist ate bugs. Peter denied Christ. The disciples fell asleep while praying. Martha worried about everything. Mary Magdalenewas, well, you know… The Samaritan woman was divorced … more than once. Zaccheus was too small. Paul was too religious. Timothy had an ulcer. Lazarus was dead, San Lazarus Hospital named after him.Jesus Christ was crucified by Pontious Pilate and on the Third Day he rose again.
Christianity started by Christ and Moslem started by Muhammad a self proclaim prophet.
Florry: You are right..if one hates and leaves the catholic church because of the wrongdoings of some (not all) priests, etc. it is like hating the Phil. because of cheating…”, When a catholic leaves the church because of this they become non-catolic. Does it follow then that when a person who was born and grew up in the Phil. leaves because of corruption and the sad conditions in the Phil. he/she hates the Phil?.. kaya hindi na Pinoy..ganoon ba yon kaya dinapinoy? Hindi ka na pinoy dahil sa mga corruption in the country? “our beloved country has nothing to do with it..my love for the land of my birth is not diminished the least bit..But if you are hindi na pinoy because of it- that is your business..I feel sad but that is your decision and kawawa nga ang Pilipinas kung walang nagmamahal..I love the Phil. it is the land of my birth..
Don’t forget! the catholic church has played a major role in Pandakikay usurpation to power.It was the late Cardinal Sin who dipped his fingers,dahil babaero raw si Erap,at hindi niya natikman ang mga natikman ni Erap.
Cocoy: Don’t forget! the catholic church has played a major role in Pandakikay usurpation to power.It was the late Cardinal Sin who dipped his fingers,dahil babaero raw si Erap,at hindi niya natikman ang mga natikman ni Erap.
******
Oh yeah? Bakit mo nalaman, Cocoy, that this man did not have a sex life?
FYI, Cocoy, the Catholic Church adopted the rule of celibacy for the religious only after the scandals involving one Alexander Pope and his infamous children, especially Lucrecia Borgia. It’s in the history books.
Once I was told by a nun, who has befriended me and has been trying to reconvert me to Catholicism, about a newly constructed orphanage where most of the children of nuns who got impregnated inside the convent! That naturally has been my reason likewise for not reconverting as she has tried. Mas maganda di hamak ang turo ng present religion ko especially with regards to the Law of Chastity, which is God’s rule that no one should have sex with anybody he/she is not legally and lawfully married to.
Sorry, putol. This should read: Once I was told by a nun, who has befriended me and has been trying to reconvert me to Catholicism, about a newly constructed orphanage where most of the wards were children of nuns who got impregnated inside the convent! The orphanage was built in the outskirts of Manila some ten or twelve years ago. I was shocked when I heard about it. But with the scandals involving the religious and the big pay-offs, I believe that nun, who, however, has made a vow never to leave her order. She actually just celebrated her 50 years as a nun.
Yuko,
Hahahahah!
Well pointed out! “Oh yeah? Bakit mo nalaman, Cocoy, that this man did not have a sex life?”
Ystakei,
Not only the leaders of Catholic Church was/is guilty of sexual offenses. Other denominations have been accused also of these wrongdoings. The LDS is also full of stories about this specially during the early times of the church with Joseph Smith. Also with the Moslems, that is why they allowed them o marry four times. In the first place religious leaders are also humans prone to commit sins. That is why we should not focus and immitate their wrongdoings but on their good teachings. And we need God and the guidance of the Holy Spirit to help us from temptations.
Masyado lang kasing pansin ang Catholic Church not only because it is a very big denomination but also of the claim of roots of the teachings of Jesus Christ through the apostles especially St. Peter.
Luz, as I said, church history (all denominations included) is peppered with scandals and debauchery.
But the sins of those “church men” should not be imputed on the Catholics of today… not only hugely unfair, also incredibly debilitated attitude!
If some members of the clergy commit sins, that’s their own lookout and must in no way be imputed on ordinary Catholic folks like you, me, chi, everybody else whose faith in the Catholic Church is faith in God and not in those miserable souls.
Salamat Ate Ystakei at sumali ka na dito sa usapan. Ang napapansin ko lang ay kapag ikaw ang bumanat o magpaliwanag (laban) sa mga maling aral at gawain ng mga Pari at Simbahang Katoliko, medyo tameme ang mga kasama dito. Kung ako ang kausap, palag ng palag at pilit na tinutuwid ang mga mali. Siguro mas magaling ka lang magpaliwanag at mas iginagalang ang mga pananaw mo. Ano man pagtanggol ng mga iba, keso sabihin pang huwag isisi sa simbahan ang kasalanan ng mga pari at ilan, ang posisyon ko ay paano ka makakalakad ng tuwid kung ang umaakay sa iyo ay pilay?
artchi: “papaano ka makakalakad ng tuwid kung ang umaakay sa iyo ay pilay?” Di humanap ka ng ibang aakay? Ang dami diyan hindi lang ang mga pari..hayaan mo na ang mga catolico magpaakay sa mga pilay na pari. Kung gusto mo umakay sa kanila..be my guest..how will you lead me? Saka pala..mestiza ako pero hindi dahil sa ang tatay ko, o ang lolo ko ay pari..mestiza ako at may dugong kastila dahil sa ang lolo ng lolo ko ay galing sa Spain, na naipadala sa Antique. Hindi siya pari..
Cocoy: You are right about the Bible..words inspired by God, Alive and Active. I teach CCD to 7th graders and we learn how to read the bible (books, chapter and verses) I don’t explain or interpret or prove anything..In reading a verse think of the word. W (what Word struck you in the verse?) O- what do you think is God Ordering you to do?
R (what is the Reason, of what God asks you to do?) D (what are you going to Do..your determination to follow Him?) Ikaw lang ang makakasagot niyan.. even if we read the same verse. What we will do to follow is an individual choice, hindi ba?
ae
Cocoy: Si GMA ay may lapse of memory.. nakalimutan na niya ang itinuro sa kanila sa 10 commandments..particularly
Thou shalt not Kill..Thou shalt not steal..Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. O baka absent lang siya noon.. ang ipinagtataka ko lang paano siya na ka pasa sa test? nakopya? may codigo? valedictorian siya at may doctorate..Ang kay Cardinal sin naman..re Erap..for the catholics the sacrament of matrimony is to be received only once ang wika nga “till death do us part.” Erap claims to be a catholic..so he has to follow the teachings of the church. Anybody who wants to have a harem or concubines..
go to whatever allows this.. you don’t have to be catholic and demand the church to change their rules for you..Kon ang paniwala mo ay “to increase and multiply” and to achieve this means maraming asawa..this that the means that the Catholic church allows.. It is your choice..it is your decision…
Corection; ..and to achieve this means maraming asawa this is not the means that the catholic church allows..
Yuko;
I am not saying that he doesn’t have a sex lives. Maybe, he has, but it might not be good and exciting compared to Erap. I think the reason why Catholic Church imposed celibacy for it’s own gain. Another factor in the push for celibacy was the problematic relationship the Catholic Church had with real estate and inherited land. Priests and bishops were not just religious leaders, they also had political power based on the land they controlled. When they died, the land might go to church or the man’s heirs — and naturally the church wanted to keep the land in order to retain political power.
The best way to keep the land was to ensure that no rivals could claim it; keeping the clergy celibate and unmarried was the easiest way to accomplish this. Making celibacy a religious obligation was also the best way to ensure that the clergy obeyed. Catholic apologists deny that such worldly concerns were part of the decision to impose celibacy on priests, but it can’t be a coincidence that the final push towards celibacy occurred when conflict over land were increasing.
Celibacy is neither unnatural nor unbiblical. “Be fruitful and multiply” is not binding upon every individual; rather, it is a general precept for the human race. Otherwise, every unmarried man and woman of marrying age would be in a state of sin by remaining single, and Jesus and Paul would be guilty of advocating sin as well as committing it. Often surprised to learn that even today celibacy is not the rule for all Catholic priests. In fact, for Eastern Rite Catholics, married priests are the norm, just as they are for Orthodox and Oriental Christians.
Even in the Eastern churches, though, there have always been some restrictions on marriage and ordination. Although married men may become priests, unmarried priests may not marry, and married priests, if widowed, may not remarry. Moreover, there is an ancient Eastern discipline of choosing bishops from the ranks of the celibate monks, so their bishops are all unmarried.
Cocoy: You have a point in saying that a reason for celibacy is “to control properties, and the wealth of the church”. Kasi nga naman kung maraming mga anak ang mga pari di sa pamamanahin..paano ang partihan? The properties would no longer belong to the church? Here in NJ after Gov McGreevy stepped down because he is gay and because he is Catholic he can not marry his partner. Now he was or is thinking of becoming an Anglican priest. Hindi ko lang alam kung nagpari na siya. There is no such thing in the Catholic church..so pumunta siya sa Anglican. I think here in NJ same sex marriage is ok..pero don’t even whisper this to the last senator proclaimed…baka kakandidato siya dito…
Cocoy,
My 2 cents worth. “Be fruitful and multiply” has 2 its literal and esoteric.
Your explanation is the literal which I supposed is also followed literally by those opposing family planning or use of contraceptives.
The esoteric meaning is “go and bring forth to all of humanity my teachings”, thus be fruitful and multiply.
I rather want to believe that the reason for celibacy is for the non-destruction of pure devotion to priesthood/vocation than control of material possession by/of the church.
When a priest has a lot of properties/material belongings and wives, he can’t or quite impossible for him to pass on to the higher goal of priesthood/monkhood…that is to elevate his consciousness to the higher level of enlightenment.
So that in other great traditions/religions, meron silang lineage lang para sa mga celibate monks separate from that of the monks who got wives and children.
Although I believe that those monks/priest with wives can also attain a higher level of consciousness/devotion, the celibate monks can achieve it faster because they are not destructed by materialism and too much emotion.
Priesthood/monkhood is a vocation dedicated to God or whatever our understanding of the Supreme being is, so whoever enters a religious order is supposed to follow the order’s policy, no question.
Those priest/monks who are weak of devotion do not have a place in the religious order, kaya dapat ay lumabas ng hindi higit na magkasala sa kanyang sarili at batas ng simbahan na siya ngang nagtuturo ng mga dogmas/tenets/teachings ng religion.
Discipline is very important in priesthood/monkhood. Without or lack of it, ‘wag na lang magpari!
St. Francis of Assissi is one exceptional priest. I saw with my eyes kung paano ang buhay ng kanyang mga monks in gray robes, iyong merong mga vow ng povrety, and I can’t describe how I admire these monks/priest.
Kung ang mga pari ay hindi makasunod sa utos na celibacy, paano pa ang poverty? Iyan ng tinatawag na sakripisyo para sa sangkatauhan.
These are only my opinions and observations.
Rose, wow! Ang galing-galing mo namang umintindi. Did I ever mentioned the words di na pinoy in my post? Baka puwede paki basa mo uli yong post at pati na itong comments mo kasi, litong-lito ako sa mga ipinagsasabi mo, you entirely missed the point and that makes your comments out of my topic. What decision are you talking about? What I said “ our beloved country has nothing to do with it”. That means the country has nothing to do with the killing, lying, cheating and stealing of Gloria arroyo, just like the church has nothing to do with the immorality and sinfulness of it’s ministers/priest, because, the Philippines and the church has a separate and distinct personality from Gloria and the ministers at hindi ko sinasabi na hindi na ako pinoy. Anyway where did you get the idea that hindi na ako pinoy?
Chi,Rose;
I couldn’t argue more on your opinion, you have both logic an essential reasoning. Yes, Belief and religion is a matter of personal choice. America was once a refuge to those immigrants who want to be free in practicing their religious devotion. I’m a Catholic because I was born Catholic, raised Catholic, educated Catholic and like being Catholic. I’ll never stop being Catholic, despite the fact that many of the current leaders of the institutional church are corrupt thugs, sexual offenders and child molesters from the local parish right up to the Vatican.
Most of us who are Catholics remains so for these, for a reasons – the stories and images the Church discloses and the community support Catholicism provides. This an assertion based on reflection of what appeals to us in the Church and not the crucifixion of Christ in the altar. And on Holy week for those deep believer they torture themselves through penitent. Mel Gibson’s The Passion of Christ has no comparisons in human torture and sufferings. They belief the miraculous Nazareno in Quiapo. For most of those not being Catholic is unthinkable. What else We might have drifted to the fringes of the Church in our late teens and or young adulthood, but when it comes time to marry and especially time to raise our children, we look around and say to ourselves, “It might not be much of a church right now, but it’s the only one I have and I don’t want to be anything else.” This might not seem like rational behavior. It might rather seem like instinct, “feel,” habit, inertia. Yet, if religion is story before it is everything else and story after it’s everything else, then feel and instinct for the quality and the attractiveness of the story is all important.
Before we learned to crawl our parents brought us to baptism on a holy water, witnessed by Ninongs and Ninangs and they sometimes remember us on Christmas. Before we reach grammar school, before our formal religious instruction has begun, our imaginations have been filled with Catholic images and stories, pictures of God and Jesus and Jesus’s mother which will never be extirpated from our imaginations. In this sense, the dictum “Once a Catholic, always a Catholic” is true. We might leave the Church, temporarily or permanently but we cannot escape the images and the stories. Then, here comes another sacrament the confirmation. My foolish friend in elementary grade school told me that the Bishop will slap my face.Mayroon na namang panibagong Ninong na uutangan or sila ang mangungutang.
Cocoy,
I’m one Catholic who refuses to see Gibson’s The Passion of Crist. ‘Yang mga pahirap or crucifixion ay hindi kaya ng aking emosyon.
Marami na akong nakausap na ang pannampalataya ay sa Diyos at sa simbahang kanyang itinayo. Bagkus ang pananampalataya nila ay sa pari. Nanalig sa pari at tumingin ng husto sa pari. Kaya ayun, nung may nakitang hindi naganda sa pari naghanap na lang ng iba. Yung huli kong nakausap, nakita nya yung kura paroko nila sa loob ng night club. Nadismaya sa nakita niya, nag-iba ng pananampalataya. Ang sabi nga ni Fr. Piñon, ang ganung klase ng pananampalataya ay di Diyos, ang tawag dun ay pananampalatayang maka pari at di maka Diyos.
Yung Passion of the Christ maganda yan. Makakapagtika ka. At dapat din intindihin kung ano ang ibig ipahiwatig ni Mel Gibson. That should appeal to the intellect and not to emotions.
Yung Franciscans at Benedictines ang pinakamahirap na
congregation. May vow of poverty talaga yan. Yung kasalukuyang mga pari may kotse ant sariling bahay. They indulge themselves to the thing of this world yet Jesus told this to His Apostles, take up your cross and follow me.
Nung si St. Francis ay bumalik sa kanyang monasteryo mula sa pagkakakulong meron ng tumuligsa sa kanya tungkol sa usapin ng poverty. Nangyari din yan kay St. Benedict. Ngayon nangyayari ulit. Si St. Peter mismo may asawa. Pero nung sinabi ni Kristo na take up your cross and follow me, iniwan nya yung asawa nya. Ngayon iba na. Si St. Paul minsang sinabi na mas proper na ang isang pari ay walang asawa. Hindi nga biblical pero hindi lang sa bible nanggaling ang tinatawag na faith. Kung sa bible lang, mas logical na sabihin ni Kristo sa kanyang mga alagad, hintayin nyo ako at ako’y muling magpapakita sa inyo na dala ang isang banal na aklat. At sa pamamagitan ng aklat na ito hahayo kayo at ituro sa kanila ang lahat ng nakasulat dito. Pero iba ang sinabi nya eh! At naghintay ng mahigit 300 taon ang mundo bago siya nakakita ng canon of the holy scriptures. Tinipong lahat ng mga alagad ng simbahan at pinag-isa sa ang tawag ngayon ay bible. Marami ng milagro ang nangyari bago nakita na mundo ang bible.
With regards to chastity and purity, matagal ng itinuturo ng simbahan yan sa pamamagitan ng kanyang mga pari kahit na yung pari ay green minded.
Goldberg;
Another educational piece of learning for me from reading your post. I agree with you that it takes more than 300 years for the birth of Christianity. It wonders to everyone, why they called it Roman Catholic while the Romans hate Jesus during his time. His popularity was a threat to Jewish leaders and to Roman authorities. He was convicted of treason because the emperor was to be treated as a God. Pontius Pilate, a Roman governor and judge, had him crucified. Reportedly Jesus rose after three days, after reportedly going to hell and sending Adam and Eve to paradise. Thus, Jesus supposedly died for the original sin, and thus, the sins of mankind.
The life history of Jesus was not written down at the time, but eventually his life was recorded by Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John. Jesus was born a Jew and was raised in Bethlehem. Romans made Christianity illegal at first because the Christians didn’t worship the emperor. The Christians refused military service and did not take part in the politics or law of the Romans because these things included pagan traditions and beliefs. Obviously, the Romans questioned the Christians loyalty to Rome. But, persecutions were sporadic, usually didn’t last long, and were not uniformly carried out throughout the empire.
Constantine became the first Christian Emperor in 312 after seeing a vision of a cross with the words, FOLLOW ME, during a big battle. Constantine issued the Edict of Milan in 312 making Christianity legal.
“Don;t forget the Catholic Church has played a major role in Pandakikay’s usurpation to power.”
Uulitin ko, walang kinalaman ang simbahan diyan. Ang nangyari noong 2001 ay seryosong krimen na pinagdudusahan ngayon ni Cardinal Sin at pagdudusahan din ng iba na pumanig sa kanya. Kung ang simbahan ay literal na katulad ni Optimus Prime, Bumble Bee, Ratchet, Jazz at Iron Hide na nagiiba ng anyo, maraming ungas na alagad ng simbahan ang tinapakan mismo ng simbahan hanggang sa mamatay. Buti na lang at hindi pinahintulutan ng founder. Pero kung pahintulutan ng founder, pati yung kasalukuyang Pope, yung panggulo ng Pilipinas at lahat nung nagkakalat ng lagim o di kaya ay nagtatrabaho para sa kanilng bulsa at di para sa kaluwalhatian ng Diyos, tatapakan ng simbahan mismo hanggang sa mamatay.
At kung pinahintulutan nga ng founder na mag-iba ng anyo ang simbahan wala tayong makikitang pari na liberal at taliwas sa dapat niyang itinuturo. At hindi nangyari ang second vatican council, walang liberal theology sa mga seminaryo at tiyak maraming pari lalo na kung susundin yung order ni St. Benedict o ni St. Francis of Assisi.
Meron lang akong correction:
Marami na akong naka-usap na ang pananampalataya ay hindi sa Diyos at sa simbahang kanyang itinayo. Bagkus ang pananamapalatay nila ay sa pari.
Yun dapat yun. Hehehehe!
Florry: My question of being “hindinapinoy” or “dinapinoy” is not directed to you being such. I am just following your post of 7/27 at 9.44pm last sentence…I am asking in general..when a person is hindinapinoy or dinapinoy..I could not figure what is meant. The last sentence gave me a clue..kaya seguro they call themselves as such because they don’t like what is going on..or nahihiya sila sa mga ginagawa ng ilan..and I agree with you what the leaders do or did has nothing to do with the country. And my other question- what is a Filipino? what makes a Filipino? I don’t know if you have heard- it said in early books..Filipinos are indolent..thus Juan Tamad… it is so negative.. have you heard the songs..”i was poorly born on the top of the mountain”? why poorly born?.. or the song Negritoes of the mountain what kind of food do you eat?..we were taught at an early age through these songs…in a very negative way.. and I ask myself..sino kaya ang sumulat ng mga kantang ito? Then I remembered that we were taught by the Americans..have you heard of the Thomasites..and I said to myself..sa umpisa pa lang that is how they looked at us.. Sorry if I did not express myself well..I have been here almost 40 years and I still feel the discrimination..and that is why I feel bad that the biggest
export of the present adm. is how to be the super maids, There is nothing wrong with being a caregiver because we are the most caring people..or even being a maid..it is a decent honest job- Presidente ka nga pero kung ikaw naman ay nangdadaya..nagnanakaw…nagsisinungaling ay anong klase ka.. Again, my apologies…
Chi: from what I know St. Francis was not a priest..meaning ordained and all. He was a friar..a member or a brother of a mendicant order. He founded the Franciscan order. Just very recently I found out the difference between a priest who belongs to a religious order, like Jesuits, Dominicans, etc. – they live in a community of their own kind and they do have a vow of poverty. They don’t own any personal properties like cars..they are communal. On the other a Diocesan priest, hose who serve in parishes do not have the vow of poverty..they could own personal properties like cars, vacation houses, etc. Ang akala ko kasi lahat ng religious orders madre o pari ay may vow of poverty..hindi pala.
Of course there is a lot of history back in the early papal age. Thats why its written. I dont have any qualms at those errant accounts. In fact I could share them my forgiveness as I want others also to forgive me. But one can never forgive the CBCP for dillidallying on those days when our ‘friend’ was already choking badly.
CBCP – caring bishops of the corrupt in the palace.
Magno:
After EDSA 1 when Fortich was head of CBCP, ang tawag namin diyan, Caring Bishop for the Communist Party!!! Ngayon iba na ha? Magkano ang palit?
Rose: Ang akala ko kasi lahat ng religious orders madre o pari ay may vow of poverty..hindi pala.
*****
Yup, iyan ang sabi nila, but what you have found out in fact was the kind of deception that I resented when I still went to worship in the Catholic Church. Nakakadismaya ang corruption as a matter of fact!
yuko,
makakapal na paldong sobre. at, hindi yung letter sized, ha?
tama na siguro ‘yung 5″ x 8″ sized na envelope.
Rose:
Calling oneself as “PinoyUSA” or whatever can be acceptable. It is different though when these wannabe foreigners insult their own race, and act discriminatorily as if they have not been Filipinos at all. Worst is when they assume others in this blog as being as uncouth and boorish as the Pidals, the squatters at the palace by the murky river!
If they do not want the things being said against the Poohtah and her fellow crooks and criminals, they may just stay away, and stop visiting this blog. But then, of course, we all know that a great many of them are most probably even on the payroll of Malacanang paid with taxpayers’ money.
Akala mo matiyaga ang mga iyan? Nope, malaki ang bayad ng mga iyan! 😛
Sinabi mo pa, Magno. Maski nga si Imelda ang laki ng abuloy sa Catholic Church even after EDSA 1.
When we visited them in Hawaii after they were brought there on US military plane, I saw Imelda giving money to the Catholic priest who officiated in a mass she requested held at their house near the beach in Waikiki. Gusto kong masuka knowing the part of the Catholic Church in staging EDSA 1. And all those criminal charges against the Marcoses including murder made me wonder why Imelda was not undergoing any church court to determine her guilt and if she should be excommunicated from the Catholic Church. Sa church kasi namin, Magno, if these government officials were members and have erred the way Ferdie and Imelda were said to have erred, tanggal sila sa simbahan. Ganoon kahigpit.
In short, ang kailangan disiplina. Pero papaanong makakadisiplina ang simbahang iyan kung mismong mga pare ay truant at makasalanan!!! Buti na lang umalis na ako sa religion na iyan! Tabi-tabi sa mga Katoliko, but they should demand more wisdom from their priests and nuns in accordance with the Will and Commandments of God.
Luz,
Polygamy was practiced in olden times. Christ did not in fact talk about it, but it must have been practiced likewise during his time. There is a big difference between sexual sins and polygamy as practiced by Moslems, Jews and LDS in olden days. Polygamy as practiced by early LDS was sanctioned from Up Above. It was stopped, however, when evil men started joining the church just to have the privilege of marrying more than one wife.
It is not the same as the sexual sins being committed by the hypocrites in the Catholic Church, etc.
Rose, thanks for the correction.
Valdemar, “But one can never forgive the CBCP for dillidallying on those days when our ‘friend’ was already choking badly.”
Majority members were bought by the Tianak, they are those pari-parian!
However, saludo ako kay Archbishop Cruz, Bishops Labayen and Iniguez.
Si Gaudencio Rosales, magpatuta na lang siya kay Gloria para dako ng pera sa bulsa! Muntik ng mawala si Gloria, ipinagdasal pa ni Gaudeng na tumagal sa pwesto. Talaga naman oo!
Mrivera, di ba si Gaudeng ay Batangueno?
I don’t understand, why people get it in their heads to attack the Catholic Church en toto instead of focusing on the specific culprits? That’s a very primitive attitude.
I personally don’t go around hitting Islam as a whole just because Immam so and so starts speaking AGAINST the ‘infidels’, i.e., those who are not of their faith.
Valdemar is right to single out the CBCP in his note. Far more civilized attitude!
It must be clear to everyone here that these CBCP folks do not in any manner whatsoever represent the congregation of believers and followers of the Catholic Church all over the world! Their “errors” mustn’t be imputed on the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH as a whole, my little person and that of my fellow Catholics where I sit included! Would be unjust and cowardly! Anyone who doesn’t understand that, needs to have his/her head examined!
Korek, Anna.
Hear, hear!
CBCP is not the Church. Mike Velarde is not the church either. Pero meron silang common denominator…hawak sila sa palad ni Gloria, the evil one!
chi,
sa pagkakaalam ko, batanggenyo siya at dating arsobispo ng lipa diocese.
katulad ni ralph recto, halik tumbong dn siya kay d(em)onya gloria.
Magno,
Nagbibiro ka ba? Batangenyo sino? Si Rosales! Anak ng patis naman!
Ano yan, kambal ni Edong Ermita?
Well said, Goldberg!
Chi,nasa individual na yun. Kung magpapakasama sila pare man o bishops. Hindi tatagal ang Catholic Church ng ilang siglo kung walang blessing mismo ang Panginoon Jesus. Yun mga tumutuligsa sa simbahan ay dapat tingnan ninyo muna mabuti ang church ninyo bago maghusga. Baka ang church na pinaglipatan ninyo kailan lang tinatag. Baka hindi tumagal ito at iwanan kayo sa ere. Despite na imperfect ito nandidiyan pa rin siya. Huwag kayong magpagamit sa demonyo na ang hangarin lang ay mabuwag ito. Tingnan ninyo ang history hindi pa kayo pinapanganak nandiyan na ang simbahan Catholica 2000 years ago.
acer,
Bago pa ang simbahang Katolika, marami ng religion na sumulpot.
At dahil Catholic church and members ang pinaguusapan dito, marahil ay dapat mong balikan ang argumento namin ni Anna sa sumula ng usapan.
Hahahhah!
Kamukat-mukat si Magno at Anna na lang ang maipagmamalaki ko na Batangueno/a. Labyu, guys!
Mukhang magagaling ang usapan dito ah! Pero sinasabi nga na ang religion at pulitika kapag pinagsama sa usapan ay nagkakaroon ng dibisyon kahit na mga nagmamahalan. Carry on guys, hindi tayo mawawasak ng ibat-ibang stands tungkol sa subject na ito!
ala, ay anna.
hindi mo pa baga napapakinggang magsalita si obispong godeng?
hindi naman gaanong halatang batanggenyo dahil tumatalsik din ang laway na may kasamang ‘angin pero hindi maikakailang may lahing batanggenyo.
aray ko!
Tama si Acer! Ilang sieclo na, nandiyan pa rin ang Catholic Church. Maski anong kabulastugan ang ginawa ng ilang papa at mga hayop na hari at reyna (Henry VIII at Elizabeth I for example), maski na noong sacking of Rome, at hanggang ngayon, puro batikos, inusulto todo, nandiyan pa ring ang Roman Catholic Church… Bakit? Because the Church is not only an edifice nor just a bunch of skirt donning individuals but a congregation of people believing in its teachings all over the world!
To obliterate the Church, would have to massacre billions of people around the world.
Ah ganoon ba Magno! Di ko pa nadidinig magsalita kasi.
Oopps, pasintabi sa mga di ko kilalang matitino, matatalino at mababait na Batangueno, labs ko rin kayo kasama na si Sir Jake!
Teka Chi, lab ka rin namin (siguro kasing lab ka namin pareho ng mga rednecks mo diyan) pero sino si Sir Jake?
Heh, Anna. Si Sir Jake Macasaet ng Malaya.
AdeBrux:
Sabi nga ng ating Panginoon, “And I will be with you until the consummation of the world.”
Sabi ko na rin dito, maraming ng anay sa loob ng simbahan. Yung mga anay na yan, they used to attack the church from the outside. Now, they are inside still trying to destroy what Jesus had established. Marami ng scandal ang nangyari, pero nakatayo pa rin sya, as promised by Jesus himself.
Ito ang nakakatako. Ang persecution ng Catholic Church ay di pa nangyayari sa ngayon. To support what Jesus said that He will be with His church until the consummation of the world this is what has been written in the history books of the church.
St. Malachy in his vision about the last age of the church; In the time of the great persecution of the Church a Pope in the person of Petrus Romanus will be crowned as the new Roman and he will feed the sheep and the terible Judge will judge His people.
Before this Petrus Romanus, the 2nd last true Pope will be from the Glory of the Olives. St. Benedict onse said; In the last age of the church our congregation will be glorius.
At present we now have Pope Benedict XVI. He is a German who used to be a Jew. Jesus Christ was born a Jew and agonized in the garden of Olives.
Fatima, Portugal 1917; Rome will be the seat of the Anti-Christ. It is not clear if there will be an interval between “The Glorae Olivae and Petrus Romanus.”
As He promised, “I will be with you until the consummation of the world.”
Thanks Goldberg for the elucidations.
I pray na maligtas tayong lahat bago dumating ang persecutions. Golberg,Thank you sa lalim ng kaalaman mo sa Salita ng Diyos.
gawin na lang sana optional ang vow of celibacy sa hanay ng mga pari’t madre; sa mga gustong magpundar ng karelasyong makamundo dagdag sa pangunahin na gawaing ispiritwal, bukas at suportado ako sa ideyang pag-aasawa ng mga alagad ng simbahan.
tanging sa ganitong paraan lamang maibsan ang mga iskandalo sa loob ng institusyunal na simbahan.
Hello brothers and sisters! Please be guided by the following: In order to be among those who truly are in Christ, Jesus says “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord’ but not do what I command.” “What good is it for a man to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?”
Goji;–“What good is it for a man to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?”Faith is what we have described as “Knowledge and belief”.This should clearly bring home the fact that with out faith no man can be a true Christian. It is the indispensable essential; The relation of Christianity to belief is the same as of a tree to its seed. As a tree cannot sprout forth without its seed, in the same way it is not possible for a man who has no belief to start with, to become a believer of God .On the other hand, just ass it can be happen that, in spite of sowing the seed, the tree may not grow for a multiple of reasons, or if it sprouts, its growth may be impaired or retarded, in the same way, a man may have faith, but due a number of weakness, he may not become a true and staunch follower of Christ. Thus we find the faiths point a heads of life of submission to God, and that a man cannot become a believer in God without faith. On the contrary, it is possible that man may have faith but, because of the weakness of his well-power, poor training, or bad company, he may not be living the life of a true Christian. As such, from the viewpoint of religion and belief,
Those who have firm faith -a faith that makes them absolutely and whole-heartedly submit to God .They follow the way of God and devote themselves heart and soul to seek His pleasure by doing all that He likes and by avoiding all that He dislikes .In there devotion they are even more fervent than is the common man in pursuit of wealth and glory.
Deeds, is doing good is one of the aspects of civilized behavior. Christian teaching urges followers to try to do good every day of his life. Furthermore, that he should serve his society voluntarily and enthusiastically by helping the weak, educating the ignorant, guiding the lost, aiding the disabled, and helping the needy who appeal for help. Some of these good acts are seen as obligatory deeds and as basic elements of the Christian religion. Yet some believers are motivated by excellent manners to vie with one another in good deeds and go beyond doing what is obligatory.
Cocoy,
Yeah, that’s what I’ve saying all along. Faith without practice is a stagnant faith. I believe that faith should be active, without strings of material attachment, for the humanity to benefit from it.
Chi;
My mother wanted me to become a priest,binago ng tadhana ang pangarap ko.
Hahahha! Can’t fight destiny ha?
Very well said, Cocoy. And let us be reminded that there’s such a thing as blind faith too. Chi (is that your first or last name?), you mentioned “destiny”. That brings me to “success” which everyone wants to achieve in life. Success is a journey and not a destination. Have faith in your ability.
Thanks and God bless!
It’s the journey that matters, not the destination!
You just concurred, Chi. Thanks. Actually, I quoted that phrase from the late Bruce Lee who also was good in Philosophy, not just Martial Arts.
and destiny is a matter of choice not by chance.
I apologize for thinking it was “destination” that Chi wrote. She wrote “destiny”. But aren’t they the same? Yes Mrivera, destiny is a matter of choice. We dictate our own destiny but guided by God of course. Have a blessed Sunday.
Anna and Acer,
How I wish I have the knowledge and wisdom like those of the Saints in heaven who is now seeing the Blessed Trinity.
Lets rather thank God because thru His Church and the men of His church we have this informations for the defense of Our beloved church which is now seffering due to the englect of her own priests. I owe everything to God who gave us something that no amount of treasure here on earth can ever replace or buy it.
As Bishop Williamson told us here, the same line that Jesus told His apostles, “Watch and Pray,” so let us be vigilant since the last age of His church is about to end.
At the outset, may I say that I’m not a member of Iglesia Ni Christo; but I find columnist Lito Banayo’s opinion about this religious group quite flattering:
“The Iglesia ni Cristo marked 93 years of existence in the national scene yesterday. Founded in Punta, Sta. Ana by Bro. Felix Manalo, who has been succeeded in death by his son, Bro. Erano Manalo, the religious brotherhood has grown into a powerful force in the nation’s life.
What I find most remarkable about the INC is the unity, discipline and mutual help that characterizes their relationship with each other, which in turn has become the foundation of their strength and steady, if conservative growth.
Indeed, if all Filipinos took the tenets of their religion seriously as the Iglesia brotherhood does, we would now have the foundations for national discipline and a strong sense of national purpose so indispensable to prosperity and equitable distribution.
Many of us Catholics have been taught in earlier years to dismiss every other religious domination, for no other reason than that we belonged to the “one, true, universal” Church, but looking around us, we see a better life and a better future among peoples of a “heathen” religion, such as the Buddhists of Thailand and Singapore, the Muslims of Malaysia, the agnostics of Japan and China. This is not to disparage the verity of our inborn faith, as much as it is to foster an open-mindedness that tells us to use reason instead of blind faith in approaching the ties that bind spirituality with everyday life. Here at home, the Iglesia ni Cristo, whatever its detractors may say, has proven that spiritual bonds can be a positive factor in nation-building.”
By Lito Banayo
Discipline: Kaya pala yung kaanib nila na di na makaganap ay tinitiwalag kasi sa hirap di yata makapagbigay ng hinihinging ikapu. Yung pananamit, tuwing araw lang ng pagsamba makikita ang kababaihan na nakadamit ng damit ng babae, isasama ko na rin dito yung mga Katoliko at di Katoliko na kung magdamit ay gumamit ng salitang “be practical.” Fatima, Portugal 1917, “Certain fashions will be introduced that will offend our Lord so much.”
Yung kapit bahay namin, sa halip na ibayad sa Manila Water yung bayad sa tubig ng mga umuupa sa kanila, ginamit para mapanatili ang tindahan. Kaya yung connection ng tubig, illegal.
Unity: Ang “Humility” ay walang lugar sa kahit na sino man sa kanila. Yung mga umanib kinilabutan daw nung magsalita ang kanilang pastor. Faith is not suppose to appeal to emotions but rather to the intellect. Wala daw pasko, pero pagnagdiwang ng kaarwan si Manalo, yun yata ang pasko sa kanila.
“In the begging was the Word; and the Word was with God; and the Word was God. And dwelth among us.” Nasa Genesis yata ito? “Let us make man according to our likeness.”
“I and the Father are one.” Di daw Diyos yung Kristo na anak ng Ama. United sila diyan. “Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Ang baptism nila ganito: I baptize you in the name of the Father (God), and of the Son (Man), and of the Holy Spirit (One of the Seven Spirits) Wala daw po kasing “Holy Trinity.”
Ito ang 2 sa matindin kong narinig mula sa kanila.
1.”Totoo po na may tunay sa simbahan at relihiyon sa tinatag ng Panginoon pero ito po ay nawala at napalitan ng Iglesia Katolika Romana.” Sinabi na ng Panginoon na “Ako’y papasainyo hanggang sa pagwawakas ng mundo.” Ginawa pang sinungaling ang Panginoon.
2. “Hindi po nagturo ang mga apostol sapagkat ayon sa ating nabasa, sinabi ni Pedro sa Panginoon na ako po ay di nararapat (I am not worthy). Pero ayon sa nakasulat, “dumating ang Banal na Espiritu sa anyo ng mga Dilang Apoy at nanahan sa mga apostol.” Kaya nga si Pedro ay di natakot mamatay nung siya ay pinatay ng mga pagano.
Matindi talaga ang unity at discipline nila.
Yung hirap na sa buhay, dapat pa ring magbigay ng ikapu. Pag di ka na makapagbigay ng ikapu, tiwalag ka sa ayaw at sa gusto mo. Pag unity ito yan, pag napikon ang pastor pati kaanib pikon din. Minsan ng sinugod ng mga yan si Fr. Piñon sa UST hospital dahil sa isang libro na isinulat nung matandang pari tungkol sa kanila. Itinago yung pari kasi yung mga pumunta sa hospital na naghahanap sa kanya mukhang liquidation squad. Nagsama lang ng mga babae para di halata.
Kung ganito ang takbo ng isip ng mga tao para sa Nation Building, wag na lang. Imungkahi kaya yung establishment of Christ the King sa buong Pilipinas, ano kaya ang reaction nila?
May mali dun sa post ko kanina.
“In the beggining dapat yun. Hehe!
Golberg, it looks like you know INC more than I do. But as far as I know, INC has no 10% donation or “ikapu” as you indicated. And from what I heard, failing to donate is not a ground for expulsion. For one thing, most INC members are poor. As for the other issues about INC, I leave those to you and the others. I must admit I’m not in a position to engage in such information sharing. I posted Mr. Banayo’s column because I found it interesting. Thanks for your input, Golberg.
Re: “This is not to disparage the verity of our inborn faith, as much as it is to foster an open-mindedness that tells us to use reason instead of blind faith in approaching the ties that bind spirituality with everyday life.”
Agree completely!
From whose quote is this, Anna? Sa dami ng magagandang comments dito, I couldn’t keep track anymore.
I agree completely too.
Ellen,
I plucked that gem of a quote from Goji’ post of Lito Banayo’s piece.
Lito Banayo is a respected journalist and a true opposition. On the other hand, my reading of his flattering column about the INC’s recent anniversary is for him to continue to be in good grace with the INC for his future political career. Lito first decided to run for Congress in his district then almost was picked as candidate for Vice-Mayor of Manila. For some reasons, all the above did not materialize. Lito, together with another guy named Nixon Kua, did very good at PTA under the Estrada Administration. The two and some others like Ellen remain to be steadfast in their fight for truth and freedom of the country.
Goji,
You reckon? His flattering column about the INC is to be in the continuing good grace of the INC, is that good or bad? I have no real opinion on the matter of INC being a king maker or breaker. Know so little of INC structural hierarchy.
Having said that, there is one person I object to among the very few members of INC I know, and the man is Cuevas, the fellow who is a kingpin in LTO, DoTC… I thought he was a real gangland mafia type of man, he appeared, spoke and acted like the ordinary mafioso we see in films – no force on earth will make me believe he is not corrupt.
As to Lito’s statement on faith – it’s good! Besides, as you say, he is a respected journalist and a true opposition.
Cuevas is indeed a kingpin in LTO, DOTC and even real estate.
Many of the contracts of LTO are cornered by his company and I think the one running it is his brother, a colonel (reserved?) in the AFP. Behind the scene, Cuevas might be also representing his church on some projects. But as a former SC Associate Justice and DOJ Secretary, I think he did well. When he was DOJ Secretary, he opted not to give in to VIPs like Lucio Tan and Mark Jimenez angering then President Estrada who unceremoniously fired him. In disgust, Cuevas was about to hold a press conference to reveal the reason for his firing but was prevailed upon by the INC leadership. I think Cuevas showed an independent mind. Despite being fired from Estrada’s cabinet, Cuevas even joined the Estrada legal defense team. Did he do this voluntarily or he just obeyed the church higher up? I don’t know.
More on Cuevas: There was once a scandal involving 12 Indians who were his tenants. Investigations were conducted but did not prosper. On the business side, I believe Cuevas uses his influence by being a powerful member of his church. But career wise, I think there’s not much negative or derogatory to say about him as a person. When he was still the DOJ Secretary, Lucio Tan’s legal counsel Mendoza tried in vain to intimidate Cuevas. That gained the respect of his staff and people at DOJ regretted him leaving and even described the guy as one of the most hard working DOJ Secretary. Enough for this Cuevas. I know his heart is with Estrada and the opposition. But one thing is certain, he will obey his church more than his personal choice and belief. I now take back what I said that he has an independent mind.
Ooops, sorry then! Goji, thanks for the lowdown but I believe the man I met was the brother and not the justice chief.
You’ll understand why (I reckon the justice chief brother might be a little more discreet, eh?)
Indeed, I remember the Cuevas I met was called by a title but can’t remember whether it was colonel or something – the introduction was made by a close friend of Eraps; the man I met who answered to the name Cuevas was bit small, maybe 5’5″ at most but stocky, dark shiny hair but I reckon he wasn’t young anymore; he wore dark shades so couldn’t really see; what struck me was he was wearing a huge gold ring with an eeeeenormous ruby the size of my fist (well, maybe not that big) along with another ring, and around his neck is an enormous glittering gold necklace with a pendant dangling from it.
He was wearing a bright, gold watch and a gold bracelet on the other wrist; what I noticed was that he had extremely long feet (well his shoes were quite long) giving him the impression when you look down at flippers… anyway, he was accompanied by a youngish man who I understood later on was his son(?); they were surrounded with gun toting bodyguards, some 5 or 6 of them, two were carrying an armalite each.
I mean – it was a scene straight from Godfather (but really the baddy bit…) As soon as my ‘agent’ and I got into my car, I went into a fit of laughter! Don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t frightened or something like that but meeting that man was the most comical experience of my entire professional life!
Hahahahahah!
INC high officials including the entire Manalo family have bodyguards. And of course these bodyguards are members of the church mostly active and retired cops and military men. Their leader Erdy Manalo has more security men than the President. Whenever he goes, there’s an advance team. Someone once joked (turned out to be true) that when the President of the country enters a public place like restaurant, his or her security men check the bathroom and surrounding areas. But when Erdy Manalo enters, his men check even the plants and leaves. But then, even other religious leaders like Bro. Mike Velarde have that many security men too. It’s about time that these religious leaders stop behaving like Mafia bosses. Some have private armies and high powered weapons.
How can they interact with the faithful if they behave like superstars, replete with high-power weapons carrying bodyguards.
Quite strange!
If God is with us, who can be against us. Bakit kailangan pa ng mga bodyguards? Totoo lahat ang sinabi ni Golberg. Dont be deceived by their flowery words. Make your own research sa internet.INC is a cult. Ang teaching ng INC kay Kristo ay kathang isip lamang ng Diyos Ama.Isang super human being, like an angel but not GOD. They dont believe in the Holy Trinity. Matutulad sila sa mga Muslim nang paniniwala.The Muslims believe in Mohammed while INC have their Manalo as prophet of the far east.Tungkol sa INC members na displinado at may unity sila. Totoo ito dahil na brain wash na sila ni Manalo. Pinaikot ikot nila ang Salita ng Diyos para makunbinsi nila ang walang foundation sa Biblia. Kaya ganito na lang ang estado ng ating bansa dahil rin din diyan sa INC. Ginagamit nila ang politicians para sa kailangan kapakanan.Sorry, pero di ako san ayon sa papuri ni mr Banayo sa INC. Ang suspect ko is something to do with his boss (Senator Lacson) candidancy sa 2010. Ang sa akin lang if GOD’s will na maging President si Lacson walang makakahadlang dito. Sana hindi nila ibenta ang kaluluwa ng bawat pinoy sa mga demonyo. Ingat mga brother and sister. Ito lang ang totoo.
1. Christ was born of the Virgin Mary (Virgin birth)
2. Jesus was God in the flesh
3. Substitutional Atonement for our sins (by Jesus)
4. Jesus rose from the dead.
5. Jesus will return to earth.
See Bibleprobe.com
Acer, please define “cult”. Do you know that aside from INC, there are many other religious groups that have identifying marks of a cult? The word “cult” per se is not always wrong and false. In fact, it’s being said that the Roman Catholic Church is the oldest cult on earth. To me, the basis of one’s faith and belief is on what God teaches. Anything different or alien to His teachings would jeopardize one’s salvation. One cannot claim to be a true Christian and follower of Christ if he does not follow and obey His teachings. Obeying does not mean we only pick the commands that are convenient to us. Obeying does not mean we only listen to the words that are itchy to our ears. But I do agree with what you mentioned above, Acer. Those were good points.
Goji, I agree with you, but my point is focus on INC as
a religious group that use manipulative techniques of pursuasion, exploit psychologically and/or financially, and control its members through mind control, and by implanting deep-seated anxious dependency on the group and its leaders.