Erap commends CBCP for admitting error on Edsa 2

Former President Estrada yesterday commended the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines for admitting that their supporting a power grab against him in January 2001 that installed Gloria Arroyo in Malacañang was a mistake.

“I commend the CBCP in displaying humility and admitting their error in supporting my ouster. At least now people are beginning to admit the truth that Edsa Dos was a conspiracy, a power grab. Former Chief Justice Cecilia Munoz Palma was right when she said that Edsa Dos was an instance when the rule of law was thrown out and the rule of force prevailed.”

Last Saturday, after more than seven years, the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines (CBCP) acknowledged the error of the “Sin era” in supporting the second people’s uprising on EDSA, and wants to “make up” for it, GMA-7 online reported.

Manila archdiocese vice chancellor Fr. Sid Marinay said the current direction of the CBCP is now to strengthen political institutions that EDSA 2 had weakened.

“The current direction of the CBCP to strengthen political institutions to solve and prevent political crises is a kind of a corrective measure of EDSA 2 which weakened political institution in the sense that it did not wait for the verdict of the Senator-Judges in the impeachment case against President (Joseph) Estrada. It did not respect the rule of law. It did not give the duly instituted political institution a chance to assert itself and prove its strength to handle such a political turmoil,” Marinay said in an article posted on the Manila Archdiocese website. (Note: I can’t find it in the website now)

He said the CBCP acknowledges EDSA 2 did not help strengthen our political institutions, but was instead counterproductive, “for it weakened our political structures.”

Estrada spokesperson Margaux Salcedo said Estrada was asked if he felt vindicated and he answered, “It is not my vindication that is important, what is important is that we come together now to help solve the various crises that are plaguing our nation. With this realization (of the CBCP in admitting that they erred in supporting Edsa Dos), perhaps the forces behind Edsa 1, 2 and 3 can come together to find a solution to help the people, especially the poor, overcome the different crises that our nation faces today.”

Salcedo explained, “Former President Estrada believes that more important than his vindication is finding justice for the Filipino masses because they are the ones who suffered and are suffering the most. The people were deprived of the leadership of the man they overwhelmingly elected when Estrada was ousted and now they are made to suffer by the corruption in the administration that took over. The former president feels for the Filipino masses, as he always has, so he is willing to work with and has extended his hand even to those who plotted against him for the greater causes of alleviating poverty and helping the poor cope with the increasing prices of oil, energy and rice.”

In January 2001, while the impeachment trial was going on at the Senate, Manila archbishop Jaime Cardinal Sin declared then President Joseph Estrada guilty of plunder and corruption, and actively sought for his ouster.

In contrast, Marinay said, the first people’s uprising in 1986 (EDSA 1) was meant to prevent bloodshed and soldiers from killing each other, with the “unintended consequence” of Marcos leaving Malacaňang.

Marinay said this is also why the CBCP does not promote the EDSA-type action to achieve political change, at least for now.

“The kind of political activism, the CBCP is trying to espouse at this point in Philippine history is at the service of the stability of our political institutions to be able to solve political problems and prevent political crises. This emphasis on making the political institutions strong by promoting the ‘rule of law’ serves as a grammar that can help accurately interpret the language of the CBCP at this point in Philippine history, and the thread that coherently links all of the CBCP statements from 2004 to 2008, the post Cardinal Sin era of the Catholic Church in the country,” he said.

He also noted that the CBCP statements from the year 2004 to 2008 showed the end of the era of the CBCP’s political activism, in the sense of organizing rallies “that has blurred the line separating the Church and the State.”

“The era of political activism faded away with the passing away of Cardinal Sin,” he said.

He said that under Jaro archbishop Angel Lagdameo, the CBCP exerted sustained efforts at strengthening political institutions based on the rule of law.

It also encouraged the faithful to be more reflective and less judgmental of others.

“We have always put the blame on people we have chosen to govern us.

Today we have become more aware that despite efforts, successful or not, to remove the incompetent or corrupt, our problems have remained.
“We have looked at the enemy as only outside of us. This is an implicit recognition that EDSA II did not bring about its desired results. Pres. Estrada was ousted but corruption in the government has remained,” Marinay said. -

June 15, 2008 2:05 pm   Posted in: Politics

76 Responses

  1. J - June 15, 2008 2:29 pm

    At long last. But where’s Erap’s reaction?

  2. Ellen - June 15, 2008 2:36 pm

    Sorry J, inayos ko pa. I was trying to get original statement of Fr. Sid Mahinay in Manila Archdiocese website but I can’t find it. Did it displease powers- that- be in church?

  3. vic - June 15, 2008 3:09 pm

    The best the CBCP and all other Churches can do in co-operation with any sitting government is to help formulate an effective Population Management Programs, which is also one of the causes of the Social Problems that the EDSA 2 among others had contributed greatly in institutionalizing illegal takeover of Governments. Estrada, through a very Big Part of his Own, unknowingly contributed to the Success of the Conspiracy, but the Biggest Sins of all were to the Conspirators who are now REAPING the Treasury and Raping the Nation of its Legal Protocols and THE Principles of adherance to the Rule of Law…

  4. zen2 - June 15, 2008 4:52 pm

    naku, may kahirapan yata itong pangusap ni Fr. Sid Marinay ng Manila Archdiocese. paano na ito:

    aprubado ba ng Mindanao caucus bishops ang kanyang tinuran?

    yung taga Nueva Caceres, Legazpi, at Cebu, pumapayag ba?

    isosoli ba nila ang mga brown envelopes at bags na may laman na mahigit sa 30 pirasong pilak?

  5. Valdemar - June 15, 2008 7:14 pm

    vic, did you say raping? Mga pare nga naman. Naging national hero pa ang umibig sa isang bastardo ng pare. Dalawa raw ang baptismal record book sa simbahan noon. Pag-aaligid-aligid ang bagong panganak na walang kasama, upang binyagan ang bitbit, kumpisal muna kung saan nakuha ang bata, Kung ‘patay’ na sundalo, ang ngalan ay Cruz, kung mga sundalo, de la Cruz. Kung sa municipio, Reyes,kung sa convento, Santos, kung maraming convento, de los Santos. Ngayon, bankbook.

  6. cvj - June 15, 2008 7:19 pm

    The above line of reasoning will also be used by the CBCP to oppose any people power against Gloria Arroyo.

  7. chi - June 15, 2008 7:50 pm

    That’s what I thought, cvj.

    Double-edged remark in my opinion.

  8. J - June 15, 2008 8:00 pm

    So, did Fr. Mahinay speak for the CBCP or just for the Archdiocese of Manila?

    I agree with cvj. This can be used to oppose people power against Arroyo. But I think the acknowledgment of “error” is long overdue. Edsa Dos was a mistake.

  9. Tilamsik - June 15, 2008 9:47 pm

    Isang pananaw:

    Totoong wala pang nangyayaring pangkalahatang pagbabago matapos ang People Power I at II.

    Ngunit ang mga sagradong pag-aalsang-bayang gaya ng People Power I at II ay di maitatatwa na nakapagdudulot ng kagyat na tugon sa ilan sa pinakamabigat na suliraning kinaharap ng mga mamamayan. Napatalsik ng People Power I ang diktaduryang Marcos at nasaksihan ang isang antas ng pagbabalik ng espasyong demokratikong tinanggal ng kanyang diktadurya.

    Napatalsik ng People Power II si Joseph Estrada at naputol ang talamak na katiwaliang nanalasa sa kanyang pamahalaan.

    Kung muli mang kumikipot ang espasyong demokratiko at kung kinukubabawan man tayo ngayon ng higit na katiwalian, ito’y hindi argumento laban sa People Power I at II kundi patunay na mahaba pa ang kailangang lakbayin. Kung kinakailangan ang People Power III, para matanggal ang kurakot sa palasyo, bakit hinde? Malamang yan lang ang nararapat dahil kontrolado nya lahat ang sangay ng pamahalaan. Kaya lang aking pong inuulit, hindi natatapos sa pagppaalit lamang ng personahe ng liderato ang tunay na pagbabago. Muli piliin ang tunay lider na magdadala sa kapakanan ng sambayanan, lider na hindi magpapagamit sa dikta ng bulok na sistema, lider na hindi magpapagamit sa dikta ng dayuhan. Manatili tayong mapagbantay at handang umusig sa sinumang nailuklok na gagarapal.

  10. J - June 15, 2008 10:50 pm

    Eh kung gusto mo ‘wag na tayo mag Senado, Kongreso o Korte Suprema. “Wag na rin tayong magkaroon ng halalan. Mag people power people power na lang tayo ‘lagi. Dios mio

  11. bitchevil - June 15, 2008 11:30 pm

    An apology and admission of mistake as big as the ouster of Erap is not complete without redeeming itself by ousting this evil woman for the last time. Erap doesn’t have to be reinstated even though he has the right if his ouster was illegal and immoral. What we need and must do is to oust this illegal occupant in the Palace who has been causing so much troubles and sufferings to the people. CBCP would be unfair to Erap and the people if they don’t support the people’s cry for GMA’s ouster. CBCP’s announcement not to go out in the street anymore only benefits this GMA. Pardon me but it’s all Cardinal Sin’s fault. The Vatican was against it but Sin disobeyed the Pope. Sin gave false information and lied to the Vatican to justify his action. Then, he convinced Cory Aquino and her supporters. Cory and Erap are now good friends; so is Guingona, Herrera and the rest of those who led his ouster. Justice must be accorded to Erap!

  12. Etnad - June 15, 2008 11:54 pm

    Ano naman ang reaksiyon ng mga power grabber na ngayon nagwawala sa ating Bansa? Tamaan sana sila ng kidlat!!!!!!

  13. sioktong - June 16, 2008 12:27 am

    Tilamsik Says:
    June 15th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
    Napatalsik ng People Power II si Joseph Estrada at naputol ang talamak na katiwaliang nanalasa sa kanyang pamahalaan.

    Tilamsik, paki lista mo nga kung ano yong katiwaliang nanalasa sa pamahalaan ni Erap? Dahil wala ako sa Pinas nuong pinatalsik si Erap kaya di ko alam kung ano ang tinutukoy mo.

  14. bitchevil - June 16, 2008 12:43 am

    I’ve never trusted this CBCP. Their admission of mistake and decision not to go out in the streets anymore only helps this
    evil woman. Why did it take seven years for CBCP to admit this? Simply because they now want GMA to remain in power until 2010. By making such a statement, GMA is assured of non-involvement by CBCP from now on until 2010. I suspect that this is an arrangement between CBCP and GMA. CBCP continues to make a fool out of Filipino people.

  15. sioktong - June 16, 2008 1:15 am

    CBCP says:
    “We have always put the blame on people we have chosen to govern us.

    Interpretation:
    We, the people, always blame tiyanak pidal for selling out to China, selling our patrimony to China, tongpats on ZTE, Hello Garci, bank account of fatboy pidal in Germany, their smugglers sons, etc….

    CBCP says:
    Today we have become more aware that despite efforts, successful or not, to remove the incompetent or corrupt, our problems have remained.

    Interpretation:
    Removing the corrupt or incompentent tiyanak pidal will not solve our problems.

    CBCP says:
    We have looked at the enemy as only outside of us.

    Interpretation:
    We, the people, are just jealous because tiyanak pidal were able to steal Malacañang twice. Tiyanak pidal is very good on us, the CBCP, because she gives us tongpats but Estrada is kuripot, we did not get tongpats from him.

  16. Diego K. Guerrero - June 16, 2008 3:10 am

    The Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines (CBCP) sodomized the Cory Aquino inspired -1987 Philippine Constitution through mob rule. They supported the installation of usurper Gloria Arroyo and her evil empire. Public apology is not enough. What now CBCP? In the meantime, enjoy Gloria’s dole-outs before it runs out.

  17. bitchevil - June 16, 2008 3:17 am

    Never in the history of CBCP, Military, Congress and local leaders allied with Malacanang benefited from this evil regime. If there’s one thing GMA is very good at, it’s her ability to feed these corrupt church and government officials using tax payers’ money. She has learned the lessons from two ousted leaders. What mistakes the two committed and failed to do, she did it to her advantage. Let’s just make sure that the next leader who would replace her comes from the genuine opposition side so that she pays for all her sins. So far, that’s the only thing we could hope for now that the church has totally decided not to support the People Power.

  18. Jake Las Pinas - June 16, 2008 3:23 am

    On Eraps Ouster

    Utos ni Boss Myawok, yun puting pusa( a N. Marcelo character).

  19. parasabayan - June 16, 2008 4:15 am

    Pati pari natuto na rin ng style ni evil bitch! What they say is not necessarily what they do. To say that they will not do anything to oust the evil bitch because they made a
    mistake in installing her is just exactly the opposite. They now enjoy the fruit of installing the evil bitch by being the beneficiary of all the brown bag dole outs. The CBCP should not have involved themselves in politics but they did and they continue to do! This was Rizal’s expose over a hundred years ago, the same problems exist today. These holy men should not meddle in politics!

  20. parasabayan - June 16, 2008 4:26 am

    The CBCP is saying, the evil bitch will finish her term. Natuto na rin sila ng style ni evil bitch. What they say is not necessarily what they do.

    Rizal died over a hundred years ago because of the exposes of the abuses of the church. Nothing has changed. Up to now we still have the strong influence of the church in politics. Worse, now they have learned to enjoy the brown bags, palace perks and now they are even in business ventures, the NFA rice distribution. The next time around, baka may grocery stores na sila and gasoline stations to help distribute these commodities to the poor! Heh,heh,heh…Oh, by the way they also have their fingers on the CARP now too. Now they are also into real estate. Hay naku!

  21. Diego K. Guerrero - June 16, 2008 4:29 am

    Of course, holy men (CBCP bishops) should not sodomize the republic. Sodomy (attack from behind) is a mortal sin. Traidor sila sa bayan.

  22. klingon - June 16, 2008 6:46 am

    The statement clearly is one against people power. But people power is precisely that — an empowerment of the masses that allows the sovereign people to by-pass rules imposed by an oppressor-state. This is a statement of another GMA lapdog trying to prevent a popular uprising against a usurper. Classes have begun, the rainy season will soon pass and impeachment is on the horizon.
    That being said, the statement’s unintended apology to Erap is well taken. Nevertheless, we also should note the absence of an offer to rectify the wrong they have done. A confession without penance does not result in forgiveness.

  23. chi - June 16, 2008 7:02 am

    “The CBCP is saying, the evil bitch will finish her term.”

    Exactly, PSB. And there will be a more than regular supply of brown bags full of money.

  24. chi - June 16, 2008 7:06 am

    “A confession without penance does not result in forgiveness.”- klingon

    Nangumpisal ayaw magtika!

    Matapos iwanan sa atin ang kanilang basura ay gusto ng CBCP na iwanan lang basta sa atin at hapi-hapi lang sila.

    Mga Alagad ng Matsing!

  25. Gabriela - June 16, 2008 7:11 am

    You said it best, Klingon.

    saying “sorry I made a mistake” is not enough. They shoulddo something to correct the mistake, Remove Gloria Arroyo!

  26. sioktong - June 16, 2008 8:00 am

    CBCP = Catholic Bishops Conference of Pidal

  27. cocoy - June 16, 2008 8:02 am

    Matatalino palang mag-isip itong mga CBCP kapag humuhina na ang collection at hindi na nalalampaso ng pantalon at saya ang upuan ng simbahan.Kaya nagdesisyon na ngayon sila na aminin na ang kasalanang mortal ni Sin sa pagpapatalsik nila kay Erap para magsimba uli ang katoliko.

    Dapat itong mga sugo ng religion ay huwag ng sasali sa pulitika dahil nadedemonyo ang gobyerno.Kung ano ang sinabi ni Mike Villarde ay iyun ang iboboto ng mga asungot niya,ganoon din si Manalo.Dapat ang pagboto ng tao ay huwag na nilang pakialaman dahil karapatan nilang mamili kung sino ang ilalagay nila sa balota.Ang nangyayari ay highest bidder ang mga kandidato.

    Nagalit si Cardinal Sin kay Erap dahil hindi kasi siya nabigyan ng girlfriend.Sino ba naman ang maniniwala na ang mga pari,opisbo,cardinal at si papasito sa roma ay hindi nakakatikim ng luto ng diyos na “panutsa.” Iyung pari sa amin naanakan niya ng tatlo ang seksing secretarya niya.

    Sabagay maganda ang trabaho ng pari,punuin lang nila ng tubig na galing sa gripo ang bote garapa wisik wisik at dasal ng kaunting “Orimos Co Viscom” ay pera na.

  28. cocoy - June 16, 2008 8:07 am

    saying “sorry I made a mistake” is not enough. They shoulddo something to correct the mistake, Remove Gloria Arroyo!–

    Iyan ang hinihintay ng “Taong Masa” na post ko sa blog ko.

    Taong Masa sa Milagro Umaasa

  29. Valdemar - June 16, 2008 8:45 am

    Di lang pala sila nagkamali sa EDSA 1, Sa EDSA 2 pati. But we must remember Magellan brought the wrong religion to us. Ang church ay nagkamali since then. 4oo years we languished, Over a hundred more years made us miserable except for a few. And for the next two years more will be the apex of our miseries.After 2010, if we still have this church with us, then we can conclude we can never throw away the portion of our life infested with the spirit of the church permanent anomaly of errors.

  30. sioktong - June 16, 2008 9:25 am

    Cocoy,

    Ano ba ang ibig sabihin ng pulitika?
    Ayon sa dictionary.com:
    The science or art of political government.
    Sa tagalog:
    Pulitika – ang agham at sining ng pamamahala ng bayan.

    Ang masama ay yong nakikialam ang relihiyon sa pangangasiwa ng bayan o namumulitika. Katulad ng pakikialam ng mga pari sa NFA rice distribution, CARP, EDSA1 & 2, at iba pa.

    Ang pagboto ba ay pakikialam sa pamamahala ng bayan? Aba na sa Saligang-Batas o Konstitusyon na ang pagboto ay karapatan ng mamayang pilipino na nagtataglay ng katangiang hinihingi ng batas. Porke ba nagkakaisa sa pagboto ang INC ay nakikialam na sa pangagasiwa ng bayan o namumulitika? Kumpara mo ang EDSA 1 & 2 at karapatan ng isang Pilipino na bomoto. Napakalayo ng agwat pards.

    Ano naman ayon sa diksyunaryo ang ibig sabihin ng vote?
    Ayon din sa dictionary.com:
    Expression of judgment
    Sa tagalog:
    Pagboto – pahayag ng paghatol….

    Tanong ko sayo cocoy. Nasa biblia ba ang ginagawang pagkakaisa ng INC sa pagboto? Anong sagot mo?

  31. cocoy - June 16, 2008 9:52 am

    Sioktong,
    Religion and politics represent two different worlds; two different kinds of power. History clearly demonstrates that when governments try to mix politics with religion, people’s individual rights are trampled upon and the church loses credibility.People should be able to vote without declaring their religious status.

    Politicians turns into virtue that religions often see as a vice — the fact that we do not all think alike, that we have conflicting interests, that we see the world through different eyes. Politician knows what religion sometimes forgets, that the imposition of truth by force and the suppression of dissent by power is the end of freedom and a denial of human dignity.As we have witnessed from all the previous elections,the head of those religious groups has the powerful voice among his followers.Once the politicians get the endorsement of Villarde and Manalo it convert to a massive votes.

    Fortunately, most people avoid a direct confrontation with the absolute demands of their religion. Those who take these demands most seriously usually end up as fanatics — this, sadly, is the logical outcome of any system that makes absolute and uncompromising demands on someone. Only by ignoring these demands and living in two worlds, religious and secular, are most people able to function sanely and without fanaticism.

    This is not to say that there is no place for religious people in politics. A religious person who allows their religious beliefs to influence how they approach issues shouldn’t have any significant problems. There is a big difference between a person saying “my religious commitment to the value of life leads me to vote X” and a person saying “God has spoken and only X is acceptable.” In the former case, a person can compromise on the details of X because they don’t assume that they are enacting God’s specific will; in the latter case, it’s difficult to imagine compromise even been considered.

  32. cocoy - June 16, 2008 10:10 am

    Anyway Sioktong,when it comes to the topic of politics and religion is a long ending debate because of fanaticism.As I said,the that we do not all think alike, that we have conflicting interests, that we see the world through different eyes.Hindi natin ipapatalo ang ating bida.

  33. sioktong - June 16, 2008 10:26 am

    Cocoy says,
    June 16th, 2008 at 9:52 am
    Politician knows what religion sometimes forgets, that the imposition of truth by force and the suppression of dissent by power is the end of freedom and a denial of human dignity.As we have witnessed from all the previous elections,the head of those religious groups has the powerful voice among his followers.Once the politicians get the endorsement of Villarde and Manalo it convert to a massive votes.

    Are you saying that “imposition of truth by force” meaning that teachings in the bible was forced by INC to it’s members? If you look at history I know that Catholic Church propagated by force with the help of Roman soldiers and Spanish soldiers.

    Are you saying that “the suppression of dissent by power” that INC is suppressing any dissent? Any member of INC can get out if they wanted to, no one is preventing them from doing that. If you look at history again the Roman Catholic Church during the early days they forced their religion to people or else you will die.

    Cocoy says:
    the head of those religious groups has the powerful voice among his followers.

    Is it really the voice of Manalo that they follow or what is written on the scriptures?
    During the time of Moses did the Israelites just follow the powerful voice of Moses or the commandment that was given to Moses?

  34. chi - June 16, 2008 10:27 am

    cocoy,

    Ang galing ng pasok ng Philosophy 101, heheh!

  35. cocoy - June 16, 2008 10:35 am

    Sioktong,
    Read my whole post so that you will understand.Don’t be selective in just any paragraph to construct your argument.

  36. chi - June 16, 2008 10:37 am

    Umaalingasaw na ng husto ang basura ng CBCP na si Gloria!

  37. cocoy - June 16, 2008 10:39 am

    Chi;
    Manonood muna ako ng basketball nag-uumpisa na ang second half.Delikado ang Lakers.Hindi kaya ni Kobe mag-isa.Hehehehe!

  38. sioktong - June 16, 2008 10:47 am

    Cocoy says,
    Religion and politics represent two different worlds; two different kinds of power. History clearly demonstrates that when governments try to mix politics with religion, people’s individual rights are trampled upon and the church loses credibility.

    “Religion and politics represent two different worlds; two different kinds of power.” True that’s why there is a separation of Church and State. They do that in USA but not in Pinas.

    “History clearly demonstrates that when governments try to mix politics with religion, people’s individual rights are trampled upon and the church loses credibility.” True, that happened at EDSA 1 & 2. Look at history of Roman Catholic Church during the early days, all over the world, they did that too.

  39. sioktong - June 16, 2008 10:52 am

    Well, anyway back to work for me.

  40. bitchevil - June 16, 2008 11:05 am

    Valdemar, when you say Magellan brought the wrong religion to us, what religion is right then?

  41. Golberg - June 16, 2008 11:59 am

    Bitchvil,
    To them there is no right religion.
    They undermine all religions.

  42. Tilamsik - June 16, 2008 12:16 pm

    J Says:
    June 15th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
    Eh kung gusto mo ‘wag na tayo mag Senado, Kongreso o Korte Suprema. “Wag na rin tayong magkaroon ng halalan. Mag people power people power na lang tayo ‘lagi. Dios mio

    ****************

    Inuulit ko ang lahat ng sangay ng pamhalaan ay nasa kontrol ng isang kurakot na reyna sa Palasyo.

    Senado? kontrolado ng kanyang kaalyado!
    Kongreso? kontrolado ng kanyang kaalyado!
    Korte Suprema? kontrolado ng kanyang kaalyado!
    Halalan? Hello Garci…!!!

  43. Golberg - June 16, 2008 3:46 pm

    Sioktong said:
    “If you look at history again the Roman Catholic Church during the early days they forced their religion to people or else you will die.”

    Maling mali yung information na natutunan mo.
    In the early days of the Catholic church people were being killed because they refuse to submit to what the emperor tells them to do. Ang daming naging martyrs diyan hanggang panahon ni Diocletian.

  44. Golberg - June 16, 2008 3:50 pm

    Ano nga kaya si Card. Sin?
    Isa kaya siya sa mga nakita ni St. Catherine Emmerich na meron din suot na “apron” at may dalang “trowel”?
    Kitang kita kasi sila eh!

  45. Valdemar - June 16, 2008 4:52 pm

    bitchevil,
    Down muna ang dala ni Magellan bago natin pagusapan what is right. I assure you, anything else is worth dying for.

  46. J - June 16, 2008 5:01 pm

    Tilamsik: siguro kay Gloria ok ang people power dahil wala ng legal avenues. Pero kay Erap, naman, di ninyo pinagbigyan ang due process. Masyado kayong atat, kahit gusto naman ng tao si Erap. Kaya ayun, EDSA DOS was a mistake. Gumising ka na.

  47. Tilamsik - June 16, 2008 6:03 pm

    “….hindi natatapos sa pagppaalit lamang ng personahe ng liderato ang tunay na pagbabago. …… Manatili tayong mapagbantay at handang umusig sa sinumang nailuklok na gagarapal.”

    Sistematiko ang suliranin kaya’t upang makamit ang lehitimong pagbabago, kinakailangan ang sistamatiko ring pagkilos ng nagkakaisang malawak na hanay ng taumbayan — kabilang na ang mga makabayang elemento ng militar.

  48. Tilamsik - June 16, 2008 6:12 pm

    Bayan kaiingat po tayo palalimin po natin ang ating pag analisa sa binandera ng CBCP na ang People Power II ay isang pagkakamali. Ito’y maituturing na baligtad na sikolohiya para para itigil ng sambayanan ang ganitong proseso para sa kaligtasan ni GMA.

    Di lingid sa atin na marami naring biyaya ang natatanggap ng mga obispo mula sa palasyo.

  49. J - June 16, 2008 7:40 pm

    Hay naku Tilamsik. Oo nga’t ayaw ng obispo sa people power laban kay Gloria. Pero di ibig sabihin noon ehmali na ang pahayag nilang mali and EDSA DOS.

    Kasi bali-baliktarin mo man, mali talaga. Nilapastangan niyo ang Konstitusyon at nilagay niyo ang batas sa inyong mga kamay. At pwede ba, mga middle at upper classes lang ang sumuporta sa EDSA DOS, ang mga masa hindi, kaya di pa tayo sigurado kung people power nga iyon.

  50. chi - June 16, 2008 8:13 pm

    May favorite talaga si Sin at CBCP. Kapag elitista ang lider ay matatapos niya ang termino kahit nakaw. Kung artista lang o hindi nila gusto ang hilatsa ng mukha ay people power daw, itsapwera ang Konstitusyon.

  51. bitchevil - June 16, 2008 10:04 pm

    The Tribune has a very nice editorial about the above topic. I’m not actually in favor of Erap running for President again; but with CBCP’s admission, it now strengthens Erap’s position if he runs again. Justice could be given to him by electing him again to the presidency since reinstatement is an impossible dream. Remember, he deserves the remaining three years after his illegal ouster.

  52. Tilamsik - June 16, 2008 10:47 pm

    Napatalsik ng People Power II si Joseph Estrada at naputol ang talamak na katiwaliang nanalasa sa kanyang pamahalaan.

    Nailuklok si GMA dahil siya ang next in line, bilang bise presidente ng Filipinas. Subalit hindi tinupad ni GMA ang inaasahan ng sambayanan. Muli naglaro siya sa bulok na sistema at masahol pa kumpara sa mga nakaraang kabulukang liderato.

    Bayan palalimin po natin ang ating kaalamang pampulitika. Iwaksi po nating ang politics of personality bagkus magpocus po tayo sa politics of issues and platforms. Ang mahalaga kung saang sistema tayo maglalaro.

  53. chi - June 16, 2008 11:33 pm

    I didn’t like Erap running for the presidency after Cory. But when he won it, Ok lang as he won handily without cheating. I respect Pinas Constitution, so I would have wanted him to complete his term as there was none, in my personal opinion, enough concrete evidence against him plundering the country. Tulong pa siya sa mga Muslim brothers in way of a foundation na pinag-initan ni Gloria Pidal.

    Really, ang tingin ko ay hindi plunder and ayaw nina Sin and Evil Society, elites and cohorts kay Erap, kundi ang hayagang more than two ang kanyang asawa at isa lang siyang artista. They deserved Gloria!

    Tilamsik,

    I would appreciate very much if you will explain further or list down the issues on the “kung saang sistema tayo maglalaro” in your opinion.

  54. andres - June 17, 2008 12:07 am

    Tilamsik,

    Galangin mo ang pasya ng sambayanan, si Erap ay ihinalal ng mayorya kung kaya’t may kontrata siyang tapusin ito ng anim na taon. Ang problema ay si Sin, at ang Evil Society di siya natanggap kung kaya’t nagkaroon ng sabwatan kasama ang militar.

    Ano ba ang sistemang tama para sa iyo? Ang sistema ng sosyalismo? Eh halos lahat na ng bansang sosyalista ay nagsibagsakan na. Buksan mo kaibigan ang iyong isipan at masyadong sarado. Masyadong nasa kaliwa ang iyong pananaw, dapat ay balanse lamang.

  55. andres - June 17, 2008 12:09 am

    Si Gloria ay isang karma!!! Sa dahilang binastos ang tinig ng sambayanan, na boses na rin ng Diyos, ito ngayon ang napala ng Pinas, si Evil Bitch!!!

  56. sioktong - June 17, 2008 1:33 am

    Andiyan ka ba ngayon Golberg?

    Tilamsik, di mo sinagot ang tanong ko?

    Tilamsik Says:
    June 15th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
    Napatalsik ng People Power II si Joseph Estrada at naputol ang talamak na katiwaliang nanalasa sa kanyang pamahalaan.

    Tilamsik, paki lista mo nga kung ano yong katiwaliang nanalasa sa pamahalaan ni Erap? Dahil wala ako sa Pinas nuong pinatalsik si Erap kaya di ko alam kung ano ang tinutukoy mo.

  57. klingon - June 17, 2008 1:52 am

    The CBCP further praises Bishop Angel Lagdameo for “strengthening institutions” The fact is, many bishops undermined the leadership of Bishop Lagdameo despite his repeated calls to ask GMA to account for Hello Garci and various other sins. Notable among these naysayers were the bishops who benefitted the most from GMA’s largesse courtesy of our jueteng operators.
    The politicking and lying of the current CBCP is Cardinal Sin’s legacy to the Church.

  58. J - June 17, 2008 5:29 am

    Tilamsik, ikaw and dapat mag-isip ng malalim. Opinyon mo lang na bulok ang pamamahala ni Erap. Hindi ito opinyon ng mas nakararami. Hinalal sya ng tao. Nanatiling gusto sya ng tao kahit noong kasagsagan ng Edsa Dos mong bulok.

    Ngunit bulok man o hindi, may karapatan si Erap na harapin ang kaso niya sa tamang fora, pero di niyo siya pinagbigyan.

    Hindi ko gustong isulong ang politics of personality. Pero lalong hindi ko gusto isulang ang mob rule. Ang pambabastos sa Konstitusyon. Ang pagyurak sa mga institusyon. Iyan ang ginawa ng Edsa Dos.

    Kung gusto mo ng sistemikong pagbabago, kelangan sistema ang baguhin. Hindi naghangan n pagbabago ng sistema ang Edsa Dos. Bagkus, ang hangad nito’y kunin lamang ang kapangyarihan mula sa hinalal at gusto ng taong bayan.

    Magising ka sa katotohanan, Tilamsik. Hindi poeple power ang Edsa Dos. Isa itong conspiracy ng mga elitista. Coup d’etat na pinagplanukan na isang taon bago iyon nangyari.

  59. bitchevil - June 17, 2008 7:36 am

    It’s now a public knowledge unless you are a die-hard fan of this evil woman that Erap’s ouster was due to grand conspiracy that began as soon as he entered Malacanang. What can we do to the dead Cardinal Sin? We’re not even sure he’s in heaven. But we can do something to his close aide and adviser in the person of Soc Villegas who is very much alive. Villegas also was instrumental in the kidnap of ISAFP agent Doble to hide the Garci taps scandal.

  60. andres - June 17, 2008 9:06 am

    bitchevil,

    You are right, that Bishop Soc Villegas has done a lot of sins against the Filipino people! When Cardinal Jaime the Sin was already sickly and senile, it was Soc Villegas issuing instructions already, specially during the time they wanted Erap out of Malacanang.

    And it did not stop there, during the heat of the “Hello Garci” scandal, it was Soc Villegas again who was responsible in snatching Sgt. Vidal Doble, turning him over to ISAFP and therefore, he was pressured to change his testimonies.

    Bishop Soc Villegas is a protector of the Evil Society! He wants to be seen rubbing elbows with the elite of the society, what a social climber! He thinks also that he is somekind of a celebrity.

    Soc Villegas should be renamed “Suck” Villegas cause he really sucks!

  61. bitchevil - June 17, 2008 9:35 am

    In the meantime, Villegas is enjoying his work in Zambales with lots of gambling lords as his close friends.

  62. Tilamsik - June 17, 2008 12:38 pm

    “… at kung kinukubabawan man tayo ngayon ng higit na katiwalian ng gobyernong Arroyo, ito’y hindi argumento laban sa People Power I at II kundi patunay na mahaba pa ang kailangang lakbayin o marahil ito’y kabayaran ng ating pagkamalilimutin.” “We learned how to die for the country, but we did not learn how to live for the country”.

    Palalimin ang antas ng pampulitikang kamalayan. Malaya nga tayong magbalitaktakan subalit hindi tayo pwedeng lumampas at maapektuhan ang interes ng mga dayuhan na siyang tunay na kalaban ng bayan.

  63. Tilamsik - June 17, 2008 12:43 pm

    andres Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:09 am
    Si Gloria ay isang karma!!! Sa dahilang binastos ang tinig ng sambayanan, na boses na rin ng Diyos, ito ngayon ang napala ng Pinas, si Evil Bitch!!!

    ********************

    Kumporme po ako.

  64. sioktong - June 17, 2008 1:40 pm

    Tilamsik, bakit ayaw mong sagutin ang tanong ko?

    Tilamsik Says:
    June 15th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
    Napatalsik ng People Power II si Joseph Estrada at naputol ang talamak na katiwaliang nanalasa sa kanyang pamahalaan.

    Tilamsik, paki lista mo nga kung ano yong katiwaliang nanalasa sa pamahalaan ni Erap? Dahil wala ako sa Pinas nuong pinatalsik si Erap kaya di ko alam kung ano ang tinutukoy mo.

    Bayaran ka ba ni tiyanak pidal? Bakit di mo mailista ang mga sinasabi mong katiwalaang nanalasa sa pamahalaan ni Erap?

  65. Tilamsik - June 17, 2008 3:19 pm

    Kung ang naging batayan ng mga obispo na mali ang kilos bayan dahil walang tayong napala sa nailuklok at lalong lumubha ang kurakutan sa lideratong GMA, hindi nangangahulugan na dapat ng iwaksi ng bayan ang sama-samang pagkilos.

    Sa kasalukuyang problema tanging People Power lamang ang malinaw na solusyon para matanggal ang Reyna ng Kurakot sa Palasyo.

    Ipagbunyi ang sama-samang kilos protesta ng mga manggagawa, magsasaka, mangingisda, estudyante at banal na masa na mga anak ng Bayan.

  66. J - June 17, 2008 8:45 pm

    Oo na, alam na namin ‘yan Tilamsik. Sang-ayon kami diyan.

    Pero ang di kami sang ayon ay ang opinyon mong tama lang ang Edsa Dos at dapat lang magkaroon ng maraming people power kuno.

    Tangapin mo na. Ang Edsa Dos ay conspiracy ng mga elitista. Hindi people power. Isa iyong kudeta na hindi aprubado ng nakararami.

  67. Tilamsik - June 17, 2008 9:52 pm

    J Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
    Oo na, alam na namin ‘yan Tilamsik. Sang-ayon kami diyan…..

    *********************

    Salamat po!

  68. bitchevil - June 18, 2008 2:22 am

    CBCP says there’s no apology to Erap because it was Sin’s initiative. CBCP now passes the blame to the dead man.

  69. dandaw - June 18, 2008 4:26 am

    It’s only now that you guys got awaken by this CBCP and the Catholic Church and its politics? Look at our politicians, they lie, cheat, kidnap even kill. They don’t suffer from their criminalities. Christianity does not mean that you have to go to a catholic church to pray. God is everywhere. Your only supreme being is Jesus Christ. Believe in him and practice Christianity to its fullest meaning. Start with yourself, treat people as you want to be treated, give and help the ones that are in need. Comfort the sick and the poor.
    Forget about the CBCP, they just want to survive sometimes at your expense. They are just middlemen who are trying to make a living like you. All good men have the same purpose in life – to be good. So lets pray that our country will passed through this hardships and we will change these bad elements as we go along.

  70. bitchevil - June 18, 2008 8:09 am

    The CBCP now says it did not admit its mistake at Edsa 2. CBCP is no different from Malacanang…Deny, admit, deny…

  71. Valdemar - June 18, 2008 3:39 pm

    Down with the Church!

  72. TonGuE-tWisTeD - June 18, 2008 7:31 pm

    Val, sa dami ng sumisigaw ng “Down with the church!”, natauhan ang simbahan. Kaya eto nag-I am shorry na rin. Naramdaman na nila ang galit ng taumbayan, sa misa, wala nang naghuhulog ng barya sa supot ni Hudas.

    Gutom ang simbahan, mahina yata ang bigay ng Pagcor, nasa Venezia sa Macau kasi ang mga high-rollers ngayon.

    Pero pag mananawagan silang sipain na si Gloria, mababali yung tangkay ng supot sa dami ng ihuhulog ng tao.

  73. zen2 - June 18, 2008 10:29 pm

    at least, si Hudas, kung tutuusin, meron angking tapang at pagsisisi sa HULI.

    ibinalik niya ang 30 pirasong pilak sa mga Pariseo at kinondena ang mga ito.

    eh, ang mga makabagong Pariseo—-na kilala sa tawag na Obispo?

    (pasintabi sa mga tunay na marangal na Obispo na pinangungunahan nina Oscar Cruz, Deo Iniguez, et al.)

  74. zen2 - June 18, 2008 10:32 pm

    kung mayorya sa mga Obispo ay mga tipong nabibili, marami din namang mararangal na rank-and-file na mga pari.

    problema nga lang, dahil sa kani-kanilang in-house congregational tenets—mga kalakaran na sinusunod ng mga pari na nakapaloob sa isang denomination; umiiwas ang mga ito sa tungkuling pang-Obispo at pinipiling manatili bilang ordinaryong lingkod ng Panginoon.

    kaya karamihan sa mga Obispong kwestiyonable ang karakter, ay nanggagaling sa pagiging diocesan at secular priest, at yaong mga religious order na bida sa nobela ni Jose Rizal— mga paring walang vow of poverty, and of vow of obedience.

    sa personal kong karanasan, karamihan sa mga tunay na mararangal na alagad ng simbahan ay yaong mga misyonaryo ang bokasyon: ang Franciscans, Missionary of Sacred Heart, O. Carm, C.Ss.R. or Redemptorists, ay ilan lamang sa maraming mga halimbawa.

    ang ganitong balangkas ay hindi gaano alam ng publiko, at hindi rin naman nag-a-ADS ang mga matitino. kaya sana’y mapanuri ang tunay na may malasakit sa simbahang Katoliko…, alamin ang mga anay, at ilantad ito.

    at (sana’y) aktibong suportahan ang mga matitino.

  75. sioktong - June 19, 2008 7:48 am

    Zen2,
    Noong panahon ni Rizal wala akong nalaman na paring kumampi o nagtanggol kay Rizal. So, lahat ng paring pinadala ng España sa Pilipinas noong panahon ni Rizal ay nanggaling sa diocesan at secular priest. Hindi pala nagpadala ng mga paring mararangal na misyonaryo ang bokasyon noong panahon ni Rizal. Wala palang paring mararangal na misyonaryo ang bokasyon na sumama sa mga sundalo ng España para ipalaganap ang Katoliko sa Pilipinas. Dumating siguro yong mga paring mararangal na misyonaryo ang bokasyon noong natalo na ang España sa giyera nila sa Amerika.

  76. dandaw - June 21, 2008 3:16 am

    Some of the Orders of Priest or Seminario in the U.S. are self sufficient, they produce their own food and manufacture something good to sell to the public so that they don’t rely on church donation. Over and above what they produce should be given to the poor. They should stay away from politics or take sides. They should stay neutral. The Filipinos have bad experiences with that Cardinal Sin. I don’t know how he got to the throne. He could have been ex-communicated by the Vatican. He is gone and that should have been a lesson to most priest. One should always learn from history.

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