A communion ban imposed by Ozamis Archbishop Jesus Dosado on Catholic politicians pushing for abortion may be adopted by all bishops across the country.
Roman Catholic politicians who support a proposed law should no longer receive communion, Lingayen-Dagupan Archbishop Oscar Cruz said on Monday.
He said Dosado’s policy, which stopped short of saying the politicians should face formal excommunication, may be implemented in other dioceses if bishops deem it necessary.
Cruz, in an interview over Church-run Radio Veritas, said the influential Catholic Bishops’ Conference of the Philippines may even declare such a ban if time calls for it.
Once it reaches the CBCP and the CBCP deems the situation serious enough, it can declare that all pro-abortionists be denied communion. All churches in the Philippines are to deny them communion. They may have to try their luck abroad to get communion,” he said.
But the prelate said the matter has not yet been brought to the CBCP’s consideration, at least for now.
What’s clear for now, he said, is that the communion ban only applies to Dosado’s pastoral jurisdiction.
In his pastoral letter Sunday, Dosado insisted that Catholic politicians should be denied Holy Communion “until they bring to an end the objective situation of sin.”
Dosado said Catholic politicians who consistently campaign and vote for abortion should be instructed on Church’s teachings and informed by parish priests that he is not to present himself for Holy Communion.
Cruz said abortion is a serious issue among Catholic bishops, adding that it can be done through contraceptives that contain abortifacients.
“It is the priest’s duty to act against public sinners. If a priest or bishop does not punish a public sinner, it is the priest or bishop who will err,” he said. (Roy Lagarde)
Sa issue na ito, naalala ko yung baboy dun sa China noong lumindol sa kanila na malakas at marami ang nasawi.
Yung baboy, halos isang buwan ng nasa ilalin ng gumuhong bahay o gusali, nakuhang buhay. Yung mga tao na wala pang isa o dalawa o tatlong linggo sa ilalim ng mga gumuhong semento nasawi na rin.
Minabuti pang buhayin yung baboy kaysa sa tao dahil malaki nga naman ang population nila. May 1 child policy nga e. Kaya magbawas ng tao sa pamamagitan ng calamity, accidents, crime at kung ano-ano pa na pwedeng pag buwisan ng buhay.
Abortion is against the teachings of the Catholic church..at karapatan ng mga paring catholico ang mag salita kung ano ang policia sa simbahan nila. If one is baptized catholic and wants to be a practicing catholic..then follow the rules of the catholic church. Kung pipili ka kung ano ang gusto mong sundin you are a Christian, yes, but not a catholic..simple hindi ba? And the archbishop sets the policy sa diocese niya..God gave us the ten commandments which we must follow..The catholic church has the Commandments of the church..hindi naman mahirap intindihin..kung ayaw mong sumunod di magsimba ka sa ibang religion..kung bakla ka at walang same sex marriage sa catholic church pumunta ka sa San Francisco at be an Episcopalian..they accept same sex in their church..what is the problem?
Correct Rose!!!
Kung ayaw ng batas ng simbahan, labas.
Ayaw ng tungkol sa reality ng hell (nananakot daw ang simbahan dito) labas.
Nasasakal daw ang freedom, labas.
Hintayin na lang natin yung great chastisement. Maraming buhay ang mawawala diyan. Siguro naman wala ng magrereklamo sa taas ng ating population?
Itong no-communion ban policy na ito ay dapat ipatupad din sa mga Katolikong Politician na corrupt. Yung bill sa population management ay hindi nga abortion. Pero ano ang gusto nating iparating sa KANYA na lumikha sa atin at handang magbigay ng Kanyang grasya sa sino-mang hihingi nito? Gusto ba nating sabihin na “Ayaw na namin ng grasya mo kasi naghihirap na kami. Hindi na namin kaya.”
Naalala ko tuloy yung minsang lumakad si Kristo sa ibabaw ng tubig sa dagat. Masyadong malakas ang alon nun at malakas din ang ula. Yung mga apostol niya ay takot na takot na dahil nasa bingit na sila ng kamatayan. ano ang sabi ni Kristo “O you of little faith.”
Iyong pakikialam ng tao sa natural order ng mga bagay-bagay sa mundo ang dahilan ng mga problema ng sanlibutan sa totoo lang. Sa simbahan din namin, maliban sa health reason, Rose, bawal din ang abortion.
Sa amin, excommunication ang parusa sa lalabag sa patakaran ng simbahan at utos ng Diyos. Sa Tate nga, none of the lawmakers there belonging to our church has voted for any abortion bill they try to pass there, because it is not right.
Ang turo sa simbahan namin ay hindi birth control kundi responsible parenting/parenthood. Kundi kayang maging mabuting magulang, huwag manganak na ang ibig sabihin ay tikisin ang kalibugan, etc. 😛
Here’s one letter I wish to share with you:
On the above subject, I totally agree with you – it looks like the Church, especially the puppets of Rome, have been abusing their privilege of being separated from the State. Here in the USA, any body or group (religious or what) that’s classified as tax-free entity will lose this privilege (tax-free) if they start meddling with the government affairs.
“I think if the Philippine government starts taking away their tax-free status when they meddle, I bet the church will keep its mouth shout. These groups are now so powerful and rich and I start to wonder if the Philippine society is going back to the old Spanish friar-led days. It’s scary. Anyhow, just my two cents. Keep up the good work.” – Andy Viloria
The no-communion ban policy must be applied to all forms of sins and vices. True Christians must not be selective in God’s teachings. Rather, all the commandments of God must be obeyed. We do not pick those we like and disobey those we don’t agree. Having said that, the gambling lords, corrupt officials, kotong cops must not be allowed to receive communion too. First to be banned is this Evil Bitch!
What is abortion? Abortion is murder, according to the Bible.
Murder is to kill a living being. A fetus is a living being. However, if there’s no conception yet; it’s not a murder or abortion. Birth Control or Family Planning is not abortion. It is only when the woman has conceived that any attempt to continue the life in her womb is considered abortion. In the Book of Genesis, God indeed commands us to increase and multiply. But the same verse also states that it must be subdued. To subdue means to overcome or control. The problem with the church, specifically Catholic Church, is the wrong interpretation of the above teaching/verse. The church mentions to multiply but stop here without continuing to mention “to subdue”. Therefore, birth control devices like condom is biblically and morally allowed. It is only when there is already a living fetus that it is a sin to stop the life.
Population becomes a problem when the country fails to provide for the needs of its people. The Philippine problem is not population per se, it is the INABILITY TO SUSTAIN that population.
The first culprit is the lack of productive activities that generate ADEQUATE income to bring up a family. Then we have corruption.
In both cases it is government at fault.
While I don’t have a problem disallowing communion to abortion proponents, I believe addressing the first two problems is the priority.
Church should take the forefront by means of a shame campaign on incompetent officials and excommunication of the corrupt. Senators like Lacson advocate population management, but no one listens, instead, the extremely abhorred issue of abortion is always the first defense button pushed.
Population experts claim 400,000 abortions are performed in the counrty every year. This act by the church is therefore, hypocritical, nothing less.
IMO, those thick skinned politicians wouldn’t care less even if they are banned from the holy communion. Basta tuloy ang kanilang ligaya sa corruption at sa mga immoral na kanilang ginagawa. Dapat mas harsher pa ang parusa sa mga yan.. ie, ibitin ng patiwarik???
If they really think that there ought to be a law on population control, why don’t they set an example beginning with themselves? Ano kaya magpa-castrate sila? Diba sila nga yung maraming mga anak sa labas at di pa nila minsan kinikilala ang sarili nilang mga anak?
BD: Therefore, birth control devices like condom is biblically and morally allowed.
*****
On the contrary, the Bible is specific on this. Read what happened to one of the sons of Judah when he had sex with his brother’s wife, and “he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.” (Gen. 38: 9).
There was no condom then, so Onan “spilled it on the ground.” And God was so displeased with him that he was slain. (Gen. 38:10)
BD: Therefore, birth control devices like condom is biblically and morally allowed.
*****
On the contrary, the Bible is specific on this likewise. Read what happened to one of the sons of Judah when he had sex with his brother’s wife, and “he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.” (Gen. 38: 9).
There was no condom then, so Onan spilled it on the ground. “And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also.” (Gen. 38:10)
Ooops, nadoble. Sorry!
“To subdue.”
The subject here is the biological need of 2 persons who has the right to do the matrimonial act. In the Catholic Church both are morally obliged to subdue or in other words abstain from doing the matrimonial act if the woman’s life will be in peril if she conceives another child. And if by their economic conditions they can no longer afford to add another child then they are morally obliged to subdue or abstain.
The common problem with the people today is they complain after the act was already done without thinking properly the conseqeunces of their actions before they acted. Common sense if enough for us to be spared from being stupid.
You were right there Grizzy.
There was condom yet or any sort of contraceptives but God was so displeased with Onan that He slew him.
Dapat siguro unahing madale yung mga corrupt na opisyal ng bansa bago pakialaman yung population. Ilang porsyento kaya ng kabuuang populasyon ng Pilipinas ang dami ng mga magnanakaw sa bogyerno? At ilang porsyente din kaya ang dami ng mga tamad at yung mga hindi gumagamit ng common sense?
Condom, Goldberg, is a modern invention. The first time I saw one, I thought it was a balloon coated with some jelly! So I gave it to my then 10-year-old brother who had difficulty blowing it.
It was given to me by a Japanese tourist who did not use it because he did not get a prostitute during the night tour. I was the group’s tour guide, who did not know about the birds and the bees. 😉 It was my manong who told me what it was for! I was shocked!
Ganun din ako noon Grizzy.
Nung makakita ako noon akala ko lobo. Hinihipan ko yun. Sabi ko sa sarili ko, bakit ganito ito? Madulas siya at mahirap hipan. Nung marating ko ang edad na 17 dun ko lang nalaman kung ano ang gamit nun.
Yung pinsan ko, gamit ng gamit ng pills, ayun may sakit na ata. Di ko lang alam kung ano ang sakit niya. Dinudugo siya involuntarily.
Meron nga dating advocate ng mga contraceptions dito sa Pinas noon. Taga DOH siya, babae. Noong una walang problema. Di naglaon, dumami ang sumusulat sa kaniya at ang tanong ay iisa. Bakit ganito po ito? Dinudugo kami?
Parang nagagaya na tayo sa mga taong ayaw na ng responsibility. Sabi nga ni Fr. Onoda, sa Japan, binibigyan na ng gobyerno nila ang mga tao para lang magkaroon ng anak pero ayaw nila. Gusto lang nila ang magpasarap pero wala sa isip nila yung magkaroon ng responsibility. Ayaw ng grasya mula sa Diyos. Ayaw ng motivation. Gianwa pang palusot ang over population para mabigyan diin lang ang lumalalang kahirapan. E malaki rin ang population ng mga magnanakaw at mga walang disiplina. Kung ganito ang mangyayari, di magtatagal, baka maging legal na rin ang protitusyon.
Goldberg: Dapat siguro unahing madale yung mga corrupt na opisyal ng bansa bago pakialaman yung population.
*****
Sinabi mo pa. But then, these prelates are in fact not supposed to meddle in politics, but should abide by the rule of separation of church and state. If they are doing their duties and responsibities as prescribed in the Holy Scriptures, I doubt if the people under their leadership and guidance would even think of having extra sexual activities or would want to have unwanted children that they would want to terminate.
The Bible as we all know and many of us believe are the words of God..written by those inspired by God..It is Alive and Active..The ten commandments are commands..and are clear..kaya lang maraming matatalino na mataas ang pinagaralan sa mga mahuhusay na universities..na dinagdagan ang pagintindi…Thou Shalt Not Kill..thus abortion is not allowed by many religious groups..Thou Shalt Not Steal..madaling intindihin kaya lang dinagdagan ng kung nagnakaw ka para ibigay sa neighbor mo..ok lang..paders ok ba? The means justifies the ends? Thou shalt not bear false witness..kung ayaw mo mag salita cover yourself with the mantle of Exec. Order 464? Keep your mouth shut..and don’t talk when your mouth is full…hindi ba Mr. Neri? Tama dapat lang ay utos ng Dios ay sundin nating lahat lalo na ng mga leaders of the church…at hindi yong Do what I tell you but don’t do what I do. Tama all politicians who do not follow by their example these commandments should be refused to receive the Eucharist..the Body of Christ and be in communion with Him? Be an Example..as you are the Leader..when much is given to you much is expected from you. Is this too much to ask?
when Pope Benedict visited New York, Former Mayor Giuliani was told by Arch. Bishop Egan not to receive communion but he did..Many catholics criticized the Arch. in defense of Giuliani..but not one of the politicians took this as an issue. Arch. Egan is the head of this church..kaya dapat sundin siya..respect..but his wish was not respected by the former mayor..para sa akin bastos si Giuliani..
Maiba ako..the Pope is now in Australia and one of the things expected of him is to apologize for the sex abuses of the clergy..as he did when he came here to NYC. kawawa na man siya..he is taking the brunt..ano kaya if and when he goes to the Phil..will he be apologizing for the church? paders maawa naman kayo..just teach us what is expected of you to teach us..the words of God..
wistful thinking and a wish…sana mag iba na ang takbo ng buhay sa Phil..
Rose, Family Planning or Population Control is not abortion and murder. As I explained, it is when there’s already a living being (fetus) that any attempt to stop its development that it could be considered abortion. Before conception, it is not abortion.
The Bible does not forbid contraception. Contraception, by its definition, is the opposite of conception. It is not the act of contraception itself that determines whether it is wrong or right. As we learned from Onan, it is the motivation behind the contraception that determines if it is right or wrong. If a person is practicing contraception so they will have more for themselves, then it is wrong. If a person is practicing contraception in order to temporarily delay children until they are more mature and more financially and spiritually prepared, then it is acceptable to use contraception for a time.
Furthermore, birth control can be a controversial subject among Christians because the Bible does not clearly condone or condemn its use. Neither does it address permanent forms of birth control such as tubal ligation or vasectomy as these procedures were unknown in Bible time. It, therefore, becomes a matter of the heart and of a husband and wife’s personal convictions.
The first thing we must recognize is that children are a gift from God (Psalm 127:3-5). They are not burdens to bear, but blessings to receive with joy. From a biblical perspective, every married couple should “expect” to have children and at least be prepared for the possibility. The inability to have children was considered a curse, and the ability to conceive a joy. No one was ever recorded in the Bible as being unhappy about bearing children.
Permanent birth control (i.e., a vasectomy or tubal ligation) may be appropriate for some couples who feel they should not have any more children. There may be health, financial, or relationship issues to consider. The decision for permanent birth control should not be made based on selfish ambition or vain conceit (Philippians 2:3-4), but out of a desire to live in ways that are pleasing to God.
Many people feel we should desire to have children just as we desire to receive all of God’s blessings. At the same time, because the Bible does not forbid contraception, either temporary or permanent, it cannot be sufficiently argued that it is wrong in all circumstances. Through our personal relationships with God, we can seek God’s will to determine the size of our families.
Without offense to Catholics and the Catholic Church, documentary evidences show that even women impregnated by the priests practice abortion. To avoid scandal and embarrassment, priests who have illicit relationship with women are the ones advising and pressuring these women to commit abortion. Not only that, even some nuns are as guilty. After abortion, these nuns bury these babies at the back of the convents. These are usually located in the provinces and remote areas far from the eyes of the public. It’s not only here in the Philippines but other countries as well. Not long ago, I came across a news article of such evil acts that happened in Africa.
Backdoor Abortion has been going on already in the country for so long and it is unsafe..But…but luckily for the well-to-do they still can get them at private, first class hospitals, and we all knew it is happening, so let us not be hypocritical about it. For some it is medical necessity, for some an emotional and mental necessity. I was deadpan against It, as I belong to the Conservative which Opposed during the long and divisive debate we had here, but as we always say we live by the Rule of Law and it was Court after Court decision, a Woman’s choice.
Like during the debate and the legalization of same-sex marriage, the PM (Paul Martin) was also warned by his Church that he will be refused communion and may be ex-communicated by his Church (Paul Martin is a devout Catholic)but the church backed out, after realizing it was a battle lost.
In the other hand, the government is promoting child birth, thus encouraging it by extending parental leave for every child birth benefits paid by the Federal Government to One Year, 17 weeks for Maternity the rest for parental, divisible between parents, also good for same sex parents for adapting a child.
Correct, Vic. Abortion has been going on for centuries in fact. The hypocrisy of the church is once again evident in this issue of Population Control. Why will not they allow pro-abortion politicians to receive Communion and allow corrupt, gambling lords-politicians to receive? Inconsistent.
Is corruption a lesser evil or less serious sin than abortion?
According to Rep. Garin who wants fees for baptism, wedding, burial, second and third monetary donations be stopped by the church, it is bad politics for her to make that stand but she does not mind if she’s not allowed to receive Communion. She will still attend Mass and just pray directly to God.
Allow me to conclude my position on the topic:
The Bible does not address the issue of birth control so it is difficult to say whether or not it is right or wrong in an absolute sense. But since it doesn’t condemn it outright, we do not either.
Biblically, having children is a blessing from God and a fulfillment of the command of God to multiply and fill the earth (Gen. 1:28). If anything, we are told to have children, never to not have them. But that alone isn’t enough to settle the issue. A generic principle of having children is for humanity and not always for individuals. Take Jesus, for example. He did not marry and have children. He did not fulfill the command to do so. Therefore, since Jesus never sinned, we can conclude that the command to have children is a generic one for mankind and not necessarily intended to be applied to each and every individual. Therefore, it would seem logical that birth control would be permissible to some degree.
If a couple decides to practice birth control, they must take special care that the method used is not abortive. That means that birth control is not acceptable if it causes a fertilized egg, fetus, or baby to be aborted. This is simply not right since we are told not to murder (Exodus 20:13). Remember, the life in the womb is human by nature and we do not have the right to arbitrarily destroy it as a means of birth control. Nevertheless, we see birth control as biblically permissible and sometimes even wise — given certain circumstances.
Why is it difficult for so-called “Christians” to follow the simple Commandments of God? The Bible may not have specifically mentioned abortion, but God had specific rule about murder, or the act of terminating another person’s life, including the life of a baby inside a woman’s wombs. Buti pa nga ang mga hindi Kristyano naiintindihan iyan.
For instance, abortion is legal in Japan, but only within 22 weeks of conception. After that it is considered murder especially when a well-developed baby is found aborted, and the mother and the doctor are liable to prosecution, imprisonment and fine.
For economic reason, abortion was legalized in Japan. The consequence? Less and less Japanese are being born now, because the truth is not because majority of the Japanese of this generation do not like to have children but that a lot of them now are barren and cannot have children. Now, they worry about the possible extinction of the Japanese race.
What happened in China recently where majority of the casualties of the earthquake were children should be a warning and an eye-opener to proponents of abortion and birth controls that are anti-life!
grizzy Says:
“For instance, abortion is legal in Japan, but only within 22 weeks of conception. After that it is considered murder especially when a well-developed baby is found aborted, and the mother and the doctor are liable to prosecution, imprisonment and fine.”
That’s exactly what my position is. Before there’s life, it is not murder; hence, not abortion. People are confused. It’s made worse by the church which deviates from the issue and misinterprets the Bible. Since the Bible does not address the issue of birth control and because situations for couples are different, birth control is not a sin — provided it is not abortive, and provided that the motives to do so are wise and biblical.
The Population Control has become a very hot topic due to the rising poverty that’s partly or mainly attributed to rise in population. So, it’s basically economic reason for many.
But should couples not have children because of financial hardship? This is a difficult question to answer because we have to consider that people have different financial situations. God says He will provide for our needs and I believe He would provide for the needs of the children should financially strapped couples decide to have them. On the other hand, if a couple is barely able to feed themselves and their economic future is bleak, they should pray and seek to exercise wisdom concerning the timing of having children. They are responsible for their children and if they cannot care for them, then birth control might be preferable until the situation changes.
bitchevil: thanks for the clarification..we, Catholics, are taught and believe that life begins at conception..thus abortion is murder..but there are those who believe that a fetus has life after some weeks? Here in New Jersey abortion is legal..ang tanong ko if abortion is legal why is it ok that when someone kills a pregnant woman and the baby in her womb..why is the killer charged with two murders..samantalang sa abortion hindi murder ang pagpatay sa bata in her womb? A lawyer friend’s answer to me..:it is the law..ang ibig sabihin ba nito ay the man made law is above God’s laws sa ten commandments? Malabo ata
Si Nograles ata ay nag rereklamo sa non communion ban..bakit niya pakialaman ang policy ng pari? pagkatapus “separation of the church and the state”? I used to be the accountant of St. Joseph School of the Blind, a private school run by nuns. Because it is the only school of the kind and private, the tuition fees are paid by the counties where the child lives. We have no crucifix or any religious articles displayed in the school premises. Respect lang..kaya ok lang.
Corr: St. Joseph School for the Blind or visually impaired with other disabilities..
Rose, there’s no dispute to what you said that Catholics believe that life begins at CONCEPTION….but not BEFORE conception. How could there be life if there’s no conception?
Family Planning is planning a family. If a couple decides not to have conception, it’s their choice and not a sin. It is when there’s already conception; there’s a life and fetus that it becomes abortion.
Many Protestants disagree with the Catholic Church’s position. Protestants Pastors have wives and children. So in a way, they have the experience and in better position to assert their belief than the Priests who do not have families or never raise their own families.
Rose:
Over in our church, the members average at least 6 children per family because of the importance given on following God’s edict on family—“Go ye and multiply.” Amazingly, I have not heard of anyone complaining especially if they have following the Commandments of God in mind, and having faith that God will provide that He surely does.
Problema sa maraming katoliko, reklamo ng reklamo pero hindi naman sumusunod sa utos ng Diyos. I am sad to observe that a lot many of the followers of the said church in fact do not even have now that much respect and esteem for the priests and nuns of their church lalo na ngayon na pati pari makamundo na rin!!!
grizzy: talking of numbers in a family..sa familia ng tatay ko..may isa who came from Spain.. had two sons..the elder son had 12 children (the youngest was our grandfather) and the 12 had 53 children (4th generation) Kung ang 53 na ito have an average 5/family (there are more than 200 of us in the 5th) ang dami ano? In 2004 we had a reunion and we got to know each other better..150+ ang dumating…masaya!
The danger with being liberal with abortion is that it will encourage premarital sex most especially with the youth because you take away the consequences already and provide an easy way out. I don’t know where you draw the line between what is permissible or not, but believe it or not, the fetus inside the womb, with its own beating heart, is a life, conceived or not. Personally, I will not have the heart to take it given a choice, but if anyone can close their eyes and slash and vacuum this already living being and still sleep at night…then let his/her conscience be his/her guide…
Of course the fetus is life. It’s different before it becomes a fetus. I beg to disagree that artificial birth control or you could even say abortion will encourage premarital sex. With or without the birth control devices, the youth and kids as young as 11 and 12 are already engaging in sex. Aren’t there many teen-age mothers today? And the sad part of this is that most are Catholics. Let me cite another example: Divorce is illegal in the Philippines but how many end up separated? Those who have money could file for annulment which is actually a legal term for divorce. And again, most are Catholics. When can people be honest enough to face reality and stop being hypocrites?
Kaya puro Catholics kasi they are not serious with their lives as Catholics. Nasabi mo as young as 11 and 12, during those age and above it, mapusok ang mga bata. Once they have tried it, it will not end on the day they have done it. Kaya puro Catholics kasi kapag may sinasabi ang magulang hindi nakikinig. Gusto nila freedom. Pag nagsalita ang mga religious, nangungulangot lang siguro kaya walang naiintindihan. Pag nagsalita ang guro, lumilipad ang isip kung sino ang kasunod sa pila at nagsisimula ng maglaro ang isip. Tapos pag naisip na may kulang sa buhay nila at may tumambad na nakabarong o naka amerikana na may hawak na biblia at nagsimulang nagturo, dun daw sila nakahanap ng liwanag at gabay sa buhay. Pero nung nagsasalita ang mga magulang, guro at religious hindi sila nakinig.
Kaya maraming nanggagalaiti sa Catholic church kasi hindi naman sila serious noon nung sila ay nasa loob pa nito. Puro pantasya yata ang pinagkakaabalahan kaya ayun, natutunan ang Catholic faith sa mga taong matagal ng galit sa Catholic Church dahil niloko daw sila. Natutunan nila ang Catholic faith sa mga taong dati ay mga Catholics din pero Catholic lang pag bininyagan, pag kinasal at pag namatay (depende pa iyan kung Catholic pa nga sa araw ng kasal at libing). Maraming separated kasi wala namang value sa kanila ang sacrament ng matrimony. Meron nga e, hindi na raw siya nililibugan sa asawa niya kaya hiniwalayan niya at humanap ng ibang lalaki at dun nagpabuntis. Dahil nung meron silang instructions sa marriage wala sigurong inisip kundi pera at hindi inisip yung role and obligations of being a wife or a husband. Yung mga ganyan, they are mocking sa sacrament of matrimony. Ito mga hindi gumagamit ng common sense. lagi puso ang ginagamit.
May magturo man, yung mga tinuturuan ayaw makinig. Kung may makikinig man, walang kwenta naman ang nagtuturo.
Minsan may nagsabi dito, ok naman daw ang protitution. May sumalungat.
Ngayon yung sumalungat ay ok lang ang contraception. Biblical pa nga daw. Hhhmmmm! Kaya pala pinatay si Onan. wala pang contraception noon pero hindi niya pinayagan ang natural order na mangyari.
Napansin ko din ngayon,marami ang hayok sa laman. At para walang sabit at tuloy lang ang ligaya, gumagamit sila ng contraception. Doing the matrimonial act though they are not yet married or although married but they dont want another responsibility. Sabi din minsan nung ok lang daw ang prostitution, wala naman daw prostitute noon. Si Magdalena daw hindi naman prostitute. Fornicator siya noon di ba? Ano ba ang ginagawa ng mga prostitutes ngayon? Di ba fornication? At ano ang kanilang gamit para sa ligayang walang puknat at walang sabit? Contraception. I pitty the fetus that was left here in the gates of our church. Unwanted child brought about by feelings that can be controlled have they been faithful to God. Hindi kasi gumamit ng contraception. Kaya yung fetus na nakalagay sa garapon, inilibing na lang ni Fr. Couture.
yong mga pari at obispo na tumanggap ng puting sobre sa palasyo ay di dapat payagan na magbigay ng communion baka tularan sila..ayaw nila isama sa di pagbigay ng communion ang mga corrupt officials eh baka sila’y mawalan ng abuloy..ganyan lang kasimply…
Rose,
Sinabi mo pa. We are 10 in our family, plus 2 extras. Iyong isa nakuhang nakasama sa amin sa Tate dahil ipinamigay na ng nanay niya maliit pa sa amin. My mother was the typical Filipina (Ilocana) of long, long time ago—walang lalaking iba kahit na maraming kabit si Papa. At saka never have I heard my mother complained about bearing us, her children. Biyaya daw ng Diyos, sabi niya!
When I had my son and I had a difficult pregnancy, I remembered my mother, and thought that she must have the same difficulty when she had me.
We also have wonderful time during family reunions especially during Christmas. Lahat ng mga pinsan ko pumupunta din, and we reminisce the good old days in the Philippines. I remember people of old talking about families as “cheaper by the dozen.” Walang nagrereklamo. Ngayon na lang. Ang dami kasing impaktong nakaupo kaya ganoon.
BD: When can people be honest enough to face reality and stop being hypocrites?
*****
Sinabi mo pa. Gago nga ang nag-i-interpret ng batas sa Pilipinas sa totoo lang. Sa Tate, iyong annulment gina-grant lang iyan pag hindi na-consumate ang kasal, meaning walang sex. Taragis sa Pilipinas, isang dosena na ang anak, nagpapa-annul pa ng kasal.
By nature, ma-babae o ma-lalaki, observation ko lang ha, maraming malibog na pilipino kaya it is wisdom for me that God has inspired lawmakers of old there not to grant divorce to Filipinos. Tignan mo nga ngayon, wala pa ngang divorce, kinorta na ang ibig sabihin ng annul para mahiwalay sa asawa at makahanap na naman ng panibago. If that is not being horny, what is? Yuck!
Dito nga sa Japan, iyong mga pilipina, napipintasan kasi marami sa kanilan ngayon parang damit kung magpalit ng asawa. Kawawa iyong mga anak nila. Madami sa mga anak nila mal-adjusted. Dagdag problema pa sa mga hapon sa totoo lang. Tapos pasimba-simba pa. Worse, daladala pa iyong kalaguyo sa simbahan, at mas worse iyong doon mismo sa simbahan naghahanap ng ipapalit sa kani-kanilang mga asawa. Ang baboy talaga! Napapataas na lang ako at mga kapareho kong makaluma ng kilay.
Harinawang patawarin silang Diyos. Amen.
Before abortion was legally become fully unrestricted, it was only available legally when performed in a hospital after approbation of a Therapeutic Abortion Committee .
Then this Physician took the risk and all of challenging the law and last week, amid Protests from religious and other groups and individuals (two awardees returned their medals) he was named to the Order of Canada, the Highest Civilian Honour.
And the reactions from the Leaders:
The Harper government was quick to distance itself from the announcement that Henry Morgentaler, the controversial abortion doctor who changed the face of health care in the country, was named on Tuesday to the Order of Canada.
The Tories, no doubt sensing a brewing backlash from their conservative base, issued a brief response outlining how the appointment process has nothing to do with the government.
“The Conservative government is not involved in either deliberations or decisions with respect to which individuals are appointed to the Order of Canada,” the PMO statement said.
But Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion called for politics to be put aside and asked Canadians to look at Dr. Morgentaler’s contributions to society.
“Dr. Morgentaler has stood up for a woman’s right to choose for his entire career, often at great personal cost and risk,” Mr. Dion’s office said in a statement. “The Order of Canada process has been designed to keep politics out of it and I think we should all respect and celebrate the decisions of the panel and the Governor-General.”
My comment: here is an example of what one person’s struggle can accomplish. He was vilified, threatened, called all kinds of names,jailed, yet he believed in his Mission..Now every Canadian Woman has the right to choose.
Golberg, while I agree with most of what you mentioned, in fairness to the Catholics in the Philippines, the reason why most are guilty of those is because 80% of the Filipinos are Catholics. Nevertheless, the same mistakes are being committed by other Catholics all throughout the world.
The Catholic dogma is very rigid when it comes to contraception. But the Church has topnotch scientists who can trim this all encompassing policy into what is a good balance to fit into scientific as well as social and religious framework.
The Church, however, refuses to give an inch. All efforts have been focused on preventing the womb’s owner to make her own choice, however tragic or fatal the consequences may be.
But the debate won’t happen because the Church doesn’t want to engage in one. The moment “Reproductive Health” or even “Responsible Parenthood” is mentioned, the trump card of abortion is instantly played.
It’s about time time even the Church itself gets matured and HONEST enough to acknowledge that PHYSICALLY SEPARATE sperm and egg cells do not YET make a human being.
Very well said, Tongue. Indeed, the church continues to deceive the people. Another practice that should now be changed is to allow priests to marry. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that men should not get married. If the church uses Jesus as an example saying He did not marry, what if one day it is confirmed that He married and even had children? So many things have been hidden by the church for centuries. The church is like this GMA government that keeps so many secrets refusing to tell the truth.
And do you know what the CBCP says? CBCP argues that population is the asset of the country because they are human resources.
I understand the Church, “ably” represented by the CBCP, keeps on implementing its “bulok” policy since time immemorial! And that is
“Follow what we preach but don’t follow what we do”
Through its bishops, they’ve proven now and then that they are still a strong force in condemning this proposed “family planning” method but couldn’t present a better and practical alternative to help solve population explosion! In short, mabuti lang sa Salita but never sa GAWA! Pweh!!!
The church actually promotes but only one method – the natural rhythm method, aided by a thermometer. Way better than the calendar-based technique. The priest who conducted the seminar for us soon-to-be-married couples at the time said it was 99.9% accurate. If it were so, why don’t they push it with their parishioners? At least they contribute to educating couples of a church-accepted alternative. But have you heard of rural people using the method?
Church already recognizes sex between married couples as a biological need too. No longer just for procreation but RECREATION also! The conservative German priest even said, “I will even allow you to use the filthy Betamax or VHS just so you people reach climax”.
What’s the Catholic Church’s stand on withdrawal method?
As far as I know, any other method outside of “Calendar or Temperature method” is a No-No for the church. IT’s a proven fact their teachings fell on deaf ears. See, the result is a hundred fold children! The question is: when is the church going to face reality?
Thanks Elvira. But who knows, these priests could be practicing withdrawal method.
The councilor-son of STAR sports columnist Philip Ella Juico said he was forced to transfer the venue of his wedding to Batangas after the diocese of Cubao “threatened” to deny him communion, owing to his ordinance which the Church believes supports abortion.
Quezon City First District Councilor Joseph Juico will instead get married in a church in Talisay, Batangas on Aug. 2. He said he did not want to marry his fiancée Trisha Chua without taking communion.
“Joseph was born a Catholic, practices his Catholic faith and will remain a Catholic. He will, as always, be at the service of the Church and the people and remain respectful of the Church and its leaders, notwithstanding what is clearly an honest difference of opinion between him and some Church personalities,” the Philippine Sports Commission chief said.
When I was staying with the Nuns during my youth, we were helping the nuns made bread or Ostias. The process is like making very thin Lumpia wrapper except the Ostias is dry. If my wrappers were not sucessful in its form, I ate it. Does that mean I can go to heaven and not be ex-communicated? Anyway I stopped practicing being a Roman Catholic because I noticed the Nuns were discriminating me. We were told not to read or believe in the Bible and also because I was poor. The Nuns only catered to students like Susan Roses, the Locsins, only the big names that contribute money in large amounts. There is nothing wrong with taking birth control pills. The only probable reasons why the Bishops and priest disallow is so there is a population expulsion so more people will give alms to the Catholic church so they can send money to the Vatican and Vatican can buy all the Arts in the World and also so they can be self sufficient. Vatican has their own Bank, etc. Its a big business just like any other businnes. To me that is the relationship between the church and government. They are all have their ulterior motive.
Your story is similar to many seminarians who experienced the same things in the seminaries. As for reading the bible, Catholics used to ignore the importance of the bible because the Catholic Church placed more emphasis on traditions and catechism. To me, another reason could be they did not want people to find out the false teachings being taught to them. Indeed, many Catholic teachings are contrary to what are written in the Holy Scriptures.
Bitchevil, what is your bible?
How many books of the bible do you have?
Even though the Bible has many translations and versions, the basic teachings remain. The problem arises when people interpret and try to twist the words of God. I prefer to read the King James Version.
Bitchevil wrote:
“Even though the Bible has many translations and versions, the basic teachings remain. The problem arises when people interpret and try to twist the words of God.”
Rev. O.J Nelson said: “Strictly speaking, none but the Catholic has an infallible Bible and none but the Catholic can be rightly called an orthocox Christian. There is only 1 Christian Church of real consistent authority and that is the Catholic Church.” Kapatid mo sa pananampalataya iyan.
Dr, Booth said: “If the assaulsta on the Scirptures continue, the time will come when to those always faithful to God there will be but one refuge, and that will be the Roman Catholic Church.” Magkatokayo yng 2 iyan. Ilan lang sila sa mga may hawak ng “Sola Scriptur.” Nagsimula sa kung anong religion meron tapos may humiwalay kasi di tugma yung mga sinasabi. Sabi nga ni Martin Luther “everyone has the right to interpret for himself the written word of God” kaya ngayon mahigit 33,000 Religion, Sects and Denomination ang makikita kung saan saan. Everybody claims to be inspired by the Holy Spirit kaya iba-iba rin ang sinasabi. Meron ngang nagimbento pa ng ibang libro at ito daw ay ibinigay ng isang anghel on a golden platter. Wala ng nga yung books of of Wisdom, Sirach, Judith, Baruch, Tobit, 1st and 2nd Machabees at parts ng Esther at Daniel, nagimbento pa ng ibang libro.
Continuation:
Si Haring Ptolemy II ng Egypt iniutos na yung Hebrew Scriptures na maisulat sa Greek. Ang tawag dito ay “Septuagint” dahil 72 translators ang gumawa nito. 6 na tao mula sa iba’t-ibang tribo ng mga Hudyo. Natapos ang translation noong 125BC. Noong 90AD, yung Jewish Council ng Jamnia ay nagtatag ng kanilng listahan o Canon of Sacred Books na tinatanggap lamang kung ano ang nakasulat sa tekstong Hebrew na naaayon sa Torah, mas matanda sa Ezra at nakasulat sa wika ng mga Palestino. Sumunod ang King James Version dito. Noong 90AD may mga librong itinapon ang mga Hudyo at ang mga ito ay natagpuan noong 1947. Ito yung dead sea scrolls. Kung ano ang pinanggalingan ng Septuagint version, ay siya naman gamit ni Jesus noon na kung tawagin ay Old Testament. Hindi kasi ayon sa gusto at pinaniniwalaan ng mga Hudyo ang laman nito kaya itinapon nila ang ilang libro. Kaya nagkaroon ng dead sea scrolls na nung maglaon, ayon na rin sa masusing pananaliksik ng mga batikan sa panulat at wika, ang laman ng dead sea scrolls ay yung mga libro na nabanggit ko sa itaas. Mas gugustuhin ba natin na magkaroon ng Lumang tipan na ginamit ni Kristo at ng mga Apostol niya o Lumang tipan ng mga Hudyo na itinakwil si Jesus at niyuyurakan ang Christianity simula’t sapul nung itoy maitatag?
Di lang King James ang may deperensiya. Bago lumabas ang King James meron ng Tyndale version, Cloverdale version, Wycliff version, meron din Bishops bible. Lahat mali dahil kulang at may mga salita o katagang pinalitan.
Bitchevil, kasama ka ba dun sa mga nagsasabing “faith alone justifies”?
Nagtataka ako kung bakit nagtatag pa si Jesus ng kanyang simbahan e may bible naman pala. Ang teachings daw ng Catholic Church ay base lamang sa traditions at catechism. Bakit hindi? E nung nabubuhay pa nga mga apostol meron reavealed truths, instructions. Doon nanggaling ang Church tradition. Maraming hindi isinulat sa bibliya sabi nga ni Juan sa kanyang huling talata. Dahil hindi na rin pinahintulutan ng Diyos na maisulat pa ang mga ito. May King James version ka nga, kulang naman ang laman. The basic teachings remain, e bakit iba-iba kayo ng sinasabi? Iba-iba rin ang paniniwala? Isa lang naman ang hawak ninyo at lagi ninyong sinasabi, I have the written word of God.
“Even though the bible has many translations and versions, the basic teaching remain.” Hindi pwedeng mangyari iyan kasi nga maraming version at translations. Marami na ngang translations, yung tao nagbibigay pa ng kahulugan sa kung ano ang nakasulat na hindi naman niya talaga alam. Yung Apocalyse ginawang Revelation para hindi nakakatakot. Yung “Faith without good works is a dead faith” ang nagsabi niyan si St. James. Ginawa namang “faith alone justifies.”
Galing iyan sa isang version. How come the basic teachings remain when there are corrupted copies of the bible which are a translation of a translation?
As basis of faith, the Bible does not need to be supplemented by any other book and even what the Catholics call tradition. The truth is, to believe in the Bible and to propose that the Bible needs to be supplemented is to engage in self-contradiction; for the Bible warns everyone not to go beyond what is written. Anyone who claims that he believes in the authority of the Bible and purports that it must be coupled with something else as source of true faith is guilty of either inconsistency or not truly accepting the percepts of the Bible. So, the Bible should be the sole basis of man’s faith.
E bakit nga nagtatag pa siya ng simbahan e may bible naman pala? Buhay pa din yung mga apostol nun para magturo ayon sa mga nakasulat sa bibliya. Bakit pa sinabi ni Jesus na “Go ang teach all nations whatsoever I have commanded you” “Baptize them in the name of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost” e may bible naman pala? Ano nga ang sabi sa huling talata ni Juan? Meron din nagsabi na ganito e “kung ang lahat ay isinulat mapupuno ang mundo ng mga isinulat” kaya nga di lahat isinulat. Kung bible pala ang sole authority of mans faith, what is your authority? Bible ka ba? Kung pala ang sole authority of mans faith di ba mas logical ito: “Wait for me. I will come down again after 1, 2 or 3 hours and I will hand over to you books of the old and new testament. Only through this books you will teach every creature. And nothing which is not written in here is to be thought.” E bumaba yung Holy Ghost of the paraclete. Nung magturo ang mga apostol wala pang new testament na naisulat. Pareho pala kayo ng iglesia ni Manalo. Sabi ng mga alagad ni Manalo minsan sa TV. di totoong nagturo ang mga apostol, Sabi nga naman kasi ni Pedro, “I am unworthy.”
Kung bible pala ang sole authority of mans faith, tanong ko ulit, what is your authority? Who gave you that autority (if ever you have)? Last, are you a bible?
Golberg, para sa iyo ano ba ang biblia? ano ang purpose ng biblia? bakit may biblia?
May katwiran ka sa pagtatanong mo kay bitchevil katulad ng:
Kung bible pala ang sole authority of mans faith, tanong ko ulit, what is your authority? Who gave you that autority (if ever you have)? Last, are you a bible?
Katulad mo rin ako, hinihintay ko ang sagot ni bitchevil.
Dagdag lang dun sa sinabi ko na kanina.
If the word of God does not need to supplemented by anything else, what was worth of the revealed truths to the apostles? The revealed truths are not even in the bible. “The bible warns us not to go beyond what is written.” Then why did God made a revelation to the apostles? There were no bibles available during the early age of christianity. Then, if the bible is sole authority in mans faith as you have been claiming, then the entire church from St. Peter to the 1600s would be damned because they dont have yet the written word of God. The world waited for more than 300 years before it saw the bound book which we now call the bible. And the church through the Pope told the whole world that “This the word of God.”
Christ delivered to the Apotles waht is called the Divine Deposit-the sum total of His teachings. Commanded to “go forth and teach all nations,” the Apostles hand to their successors what they recived. This Divne tradition, contained in the sound doctrine, teaching and practice of the Catholic Church, is passed on till today. concerning the bible, we see Christ and His Apostles used the Sciptures, hence we preserve the OT. The early church preserved the Apotles writings thus we have a NT. The apostles thought before, during and after their writngs thus, we have an oral tradition which enables us to identify the bible. Tradition has been the source that has givenus the bible and the authentic interpretation. So, if the bible is the sole authority in mans faith, why did God sent the Holy Ghost of the Paraclete? And the aposltes doesnt have a bible yet. If the bible is the sole authority in mans faith, why did God revealed to the apostles what He wants them to teach or to instruct the others? Wala bang silbi ang Holy Ghost? Dapat di na siya pinababa at nagturo sa mga apostles kung ano ang dapat nilang ituro kasi may bible naman. Idadagdag ko rin ang sinabi ni San Juan, “if everything were recorded, the volumes will fill the whole world.” Christ did not wrote anything in the bible nor did He asked anything to be written. He ordered the apostles to teach all nations and in love of His words they also wrote.
Etcetera, para sa akin ito ang bible.
The bible is a compilation of books (46 in the OT and 27 in the NT). A collection of works containing the word of God transmitted to men throughout the centuries and ending with the death of the last apostle, St. John. They were written by men (God’s human instruments) outstanding in history for their stature, character and altitude of spirit (e.g., Moses, Abraham, Isaias etc.,) These writing are valued not only for their intrinsic worth but also the records of great historical eventa and miracles which confirm theur authors as men of God.
Para sa iyo, ano ang bible matapos pakialaman ng mga taong gusto lang pagsilbihan ang gusto nilang paniwalaan? ano sa iyo ang biblia matapos na ito ay bawasan ng libro ng OT? Ano sa iyo ang biblia matapos na palitan ng mga taong galit sa simbahan ang mga laman nito?
It is not necessary for salvation (else Jesus would’ve said so), but it is a great AID to the ministers of the Church in the teaching and instruction of all nations in the performace of good works, and building up of morals and true faith.
Although not all the things Jesus did were written in the Bible, it is not right to believe that what were recorded in the Bible are not adequate in leading us to attain eternal life or salvation.
The Bible is the only Book inspired by God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking errors, correcting faults, and giving instructions (2Tim 3:16). Using the Bible as the only basis of faith will give us the wisdom that leads us to salvation (2Tim 3:15).
Golberg and Etcetera: I mentioned “authority of the Bible” referring to the Bible not a person’s authority. So, your question to me was out of order. The Bible also teaches that there should be no private interpretation. That means, if the Bible is silent, we should accept it as such. There should be no addition or subtraction. I regret to say that the Catholic Church as well as many religious groups are guilty of the above. And since the Bible is for rebuking errors and correcting faults, could these be the reasons why the Catholic Church did not put so much emphasis on the Bible for such a long time? Human or man-made traditions are in fact against God’s teachings.
Also, please refer to John 17:17.
The Iglesis Ni Cristo teaches that it is the only Church that has the authority to preach the Gospel for which I strongly disagree. They consider their late founder as the Last Messenger of God. And such divine commission has been passed to her Ministers who they say are the only ones authorized to preach. It’s debatable. We resent such claim. But you know what, if you argue with them, they have the Bible to back up their claims. Among the strong arguments they pose is the “prophesy”.
The manuscript of Old Testament (39 books) was directly taken from the original manuscript of Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) which was compiled before the end of 300 BC or around that time period. The Septuagint (46 books) is the translation from the original Hebrew Bible to Greek.
Why on earth an original Hebrew Bible be replaced by a Greek translated bible (Septugiant) to be officially recognize as Old Testament?
The Catholic church became the official Roman Catholic Church during the time of Constantinople around 300 AD or 4th century AD.
Did anyone able to produce a hard evidence of the existence of such manuscript of Greek Septugiant ( Greek translated bible) in 125 BC or at any time near it? The oldest existing manuscript of Greek Septugiant are dated no earlier than 4th century AD.
http://www.chick.com/reading/books/158/158_09.asp
Golberg Says:
Continuation:
Ito yung dead sea scrolls. Kung ano ang pinanggalingan ng Septuagint version, ay siya naman gamit ni Jesus noon na kung tawagin ay Old Testament.
Totoo ba na ginamit ni Kristo ang Septurgiant version na Greek version ng biblia ayon sa sinasabi mo o ang orihinal na Hebrew Bible ang ginagamit ni Kristo na pinatutunayan ng biblia? Please read below:
While many have previously believed that Christ and the Apostles used the Greek Septuagint because it was the common tongue of the day, the recent discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran proves conclusively that the Old Testament was available in Hebrew in Israel at the time of Christ.
Note the following verse:
Matt. 5:18 For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.
A Catholic Bible commentary says the following about the above verse:
jot or tittle: “Jot” refers to yôd, the smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet; “tittle” is a slight serif on a Hebrew letter that distinguishes it from another, similarly formed letter.
Source: The New Jerome Bible Commentary, copyright 1990, 1968, by Prentice Hall, Inc., ISBN 0-13-614934-0, page 641.
So it would seem, based on the above Catholic commentary, that Catholics do, in fact, accept that Christ was referring to scripture in the Hebrew language, and NOT a Greek translation!
http://biblelight.net/hebrew-canon.htm
Bitchevil, Hats off ako sa iyo. You know how to interprete the Bible to its tee. Seldom that we read in this blog people with your calibre in interpreting the Bible. You must be a professor. Sana ang mga politician natin sa Pinas may fear of God, decency and integrity will follow. I knew to many politicians in Pinas who does not posses anything but “yabang”, “sinungaling”, “mambobola” at “magnanakaw”. I believe that if we teach our school children the basics of good moral character, fear of God, everything else wiil follow.
Thanks dandaw. I did not interpret the Bible. I just quoted it. Golberg and Etcetera are as good if not better. We should not depend on our human wisdom. As the Bible states “Always keep learning but never come to the true knowledge.” Also, any service rendered to God is in vain when it is based on human rules or traditions, and not God’s words. Please take note that many of these human and man-made traditions are of pagan origin.
“Please take note that many of these human and man-made traditions are of pagan origin.”
Kaya nga ang tanong ko, bakit pa siya nagtatag ng kanyang simbahan e may bible naman pala? Bakit pa bumaba ang Holy Ghost para sabihin sa mga apotol kung ano ang dapat ituro e may bible naman pala? Hindi pa nasasagot ang tanong ko!
Etcetera, from 6-33AD Christ has qouted the Greek Septuagint. St. Paul’s 1st Epistle (Thessalonians) is in Greek with qoutes from Septuagint, 51AD. In 90AD the Jewish council of Jania rejects the Septuagint and reduces the Hebrew canon. Kaya 39 at hindi 46 ang OT ng mga bible except the vulgate version of St. Jerome.
Golberg, I have given you at least one proof that Christ was referring to the original Hebrew language, and not a Greek translation.
http://biblelight.net/hebrew-canon.htm
You are claiming that from 6-33AD Christ had qouted the Greek Septuagint. Can you provide at least one proof wherein Christ was quoting Greek Septuagint or Greek translation.
I am currently working on your claim about St. Paul’s quote on Septuagint. By the time, you responded on my comments above hopefully I am ready with my response concerning your claim about St. Paul’s quote on Septuagint.
Septuagint is the Old Testament’s translation from the original Hebrew Bible to Greek.
Apostle Paul belongs to the New Testament. You are claiming that “St. Paul’s 1st Epistle (Thessalonians) is in Greek with qoutes from Septuagint, 51AD.”
The ancient city of Thessalonia is in Greece. Paul was in Thessalonia when he wrote his 1st Epistle, Thessalonians. He has to write it in it’s vernacular language, which is Greek, for his audience in Thessalonia to understand him. That’s why Paul wrote his 1st Epistle, Thessalonians, in Greek. I did not find any evidence at all that Paul’s 1st Epistle, Thessalonians, with quotes from Septuagint. Can you enlighten us with at least one proof on your claimed quotes from Septuagint on those Thessalonians.
Etcetera, you continue to refer to that Hebrew canon that was reduced to 39 books after the Jewish council of Jamnia in 90AD. That is reduced. That does not contain the original number of books.
Because of the “dispersion” of the Jews and their growing familiarity with Greek which wa then the universal language, it was necessary to furnish the Jews with a translation of the Hebrew OT in the greek language. the 1st Greek translation was done by 70 translators who worked at Alexandria. Our Lord and the Apostles used this version whenever they referred to the Scriptures. It contained the Catholic number of the OT namely 46 and not merely 39 as fpund today in the protestant bibles. The Septuagint version used by Christ and the Apostles was begun about 280 years before Christ and finished in thenext century. It was the acknowledge bible of the Jews of the Dispersion in Asia as well as in Egypt, and it was used not only by Christ, His apostles and Evangelists but by Jews and Gentiles and Christians in the early days of Christianity. It is from this list of 46 books that Christ and the NT writers and speakers qoute when referring to the OT. Of the 350 qoutations of the OT found in the NT, 300 are taken directly from the Greek Septuagint bible. Pope, the biblical scholar in his “Aids to the Bible,” i.,54, mentions 18 passages, citing Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus and Judith books rejected by the reformers. The early Christians of Rome were acqainted with the 7 books rejected by the Protestants, for the frescoes of the Catacombs picture Susanna and the elders as well as Moses and Jonas. The writers of the first 3 centuries often qoute or allude to the books eliminated from the protestant version.
Etcetera, para sa inyo pala pag ang tao namatay, ang kaluluwa niya tulog. Meron pa pala kayong 3rd coming. Ok na pala sa inyo ang faith lang ano? Wala ng good works? Iba kasi ang pagkakasabi ni Santiago tungkol diyan eh. “Faith without works is a dead faith.” Pano nagkaroon ng 3rd coming? Dun sa state of the dead, talaga bang tulog lang ang kaluluwa? Mortal ba iyan o immortal?
Etcetera, meron din pala kayong “Death cooki.” Saan nyo nakuha iyon?
Nung sinabi ba ni Kristo na “This is my body; This is my blood” hindi totoo yun? Kaya pala nung 90AD sa Jewish council of Jamnia, tinanggal ng mga Hudyo yung parts ng book of Daniel. Sa kasaysayan kasi nila, akala nila cannibalism yung sinabi ni Kristo, kaya binato nila Siya.
Kaya pala sa protestant bibles wala rin yung parts of Daniel the Prophet. “This is my body; this is my blood” Kalookohan pala sa inyo iyun. Kamusta na kaya si Ellen White?
Golberg,
The original Hebrew Bible (39 books) was always the Hebrew Canon and never the 46 books of the Greek translated Septuagint.
Why on earth an original Hebrew Bible be replaced by a Greek translated bible (Septugiant) to be officially recognize as Old Testament?
The Catholic church became the official Roman Catholic Church during the time of Constantinople around 300 AD or 4th century AD.
Did anyone able to produce a hard evidence of the existence of such manuscript of Greek Septugiant ( Greek translated bible) in 125 BC or at any time near it? The oldest existing manuscript of Greek Septugiant are dated no earlier than 4th century AD.
Goldberg says,
Etcetera, you continue to refer to that Hebrew canon that was reduced to 39 books after the Jewish council of Jamnia in 90AD. That is reduced. That does not contain the original number of books.
You are saying that the Hebrew canon was reduced to 39 books after Jewish Council of Jamnia in 90AD. So, before the Jewish Council of Jamnia in 90AD, the official Hebrew canon was 46 books?
My question to you is what is your proof that the Hebrew canon was recognize as 46 books? What Jewish council recognized it as 46 books of Greek translated Septuagint and what year?
Again per links that I provided already to you:
Every Jew knew that the official caretaker of Scripture was the tribe of Levi as evidenced in Deuteronomy 17:18, 31:25,26 and Malachi 2:7. Thus, NO Jew of any of the eleven other tribes would dare join such a forbidden enterprise.
http://www.chick.com/reading/books/158/158_09.asp
http://biblelight.net/hebrew-canon.htm
Etcetera, yung mga link na binigay mo dito lahat may kinalaman sa mga adventists noon pang panahon ni Pablo. Yung mga ayaw ng magtrabaho kasi parating na daw si Kristo. Yung founder ninyo nagsimula lang noong 1863. Si Martin Luther noong Oct. 31, 1517. Ginawa niya rin yung ginawa ng mga Hudyo noon pa.
249BC translation ng Hebrew Canon into Greek. Samakatuwid yung Greek translation ay base sa Hebrew. Kumpleto iyan 46.
90AD hindi tinanggap ng mga Hudyo ang Septuagint at binawasan ang libro ng Hebrew Canon. Naging 39 nga.
Naglagay na sila ng period. 290AD the Jews fnally eliminated the deuterocanonical books from their canon
1529 Luther proposes the Hebrew Canon as the OT. Kanino ninyo iniayon ang inyong biblia? Sa mga Hudyo na hindi tinanggap si Kristo at ang mga turo niya? O sa mga protestante? Inilantad mo ang mga Levi na tribo ng mga Hudyo. Noong nanadito pa si Kristo sa lupa, tinanggap ba nila si Kristo at mga turo niya? “Hes blood be upon us and our children.”
“You are saying that the Hebrew canon was reduced to 39 books after Jewish Council of Jamnia in 90AD. So, before the Jewish Council of Jamnia in 90AD, the official Hebrew canon was 46 books?” Answer: yes it is. Kaya nga tinanong ko yung death cookie ninyo kung saan nyo nakuha e. Yung pagkakaintindi ng mga hudyo diyan e magiging mga cannibal sila. Kainin ba naman yung katawan ni Kristo at inumin ang kayang dugo! Naku! Yung link na binigay mo gumawa ng kung ano para maipagtanggol yung 39. Pinagtatanggol nyo ba ang mga hudyo o si Martin Luther?