Right now, the Philippines has jurisdiction over six American servicemen accused of gang rape of a 22-year old Filipina in Subic last Nov. 1. But we do not have custody. The six are in the custody of the United States.
(Initially the US said they had five in their custody. That’s because there were five in the van, the scene of the alleged crime. But the victim’s complaint said six. Philippine officials said the six are in US custody.)
But US military officials initially tried to get Philippine officials to waive its jurisdiction over the accused US personnel.
In ANC’s Strictly Politics last Tuesday, Feliciano Salonga, chairman of the Subic Bay Metropolitan Authority said in their first meeting with US military officials on Nov. 2, Commodore Mark Donahue, commander of the 11th Amphibious Squadron, USS Essex, said they would “prefer” that the US servicemen be investigated and tried in Okinawa, home base of USS Essex.
Other sources said US military attache Terry Cook and the investigator of the Navy Criminal Investigation Service expressed that “preference” in subsequent meetings with SBMA officials.
Armand Arreza, SBMA administrator, said their reply was: “Is that the official US position?”
That’s because in the RP-US Visiting Forces Agreement, there’s a provision that allows the US to ask the Philippines to waive its jurisdiction over the accused US personnel. Under Criminal Jurisdiction, it says: “The authorities of either government may request authorities of other government to waive their primary right to exercise jurisdiction in a particular case.”
It further says: “Recognizing the responsibility of the United States military authorities to maintain good order and discipline among their forces, Philippine authorities will, upon request by the United States, waive their primary right to exercise jurisdiction except in cases of particular importance to the Philippines.”
Arreza said US military officials replied that it was not the official US position. That means, they took a chance that the Filipinos would bite. Baka sakaling makalusot, as we say in Tagalog.
Arreza said: “I guess if we agreed, that would be tantamount to waiving jurisdiction. But we made it clear that jurisdiction should be with the Philippines.”
Salonga said when they told Donahue “No”, the five were offloaded the USS Essex, put in a van and brought to the US Embassy in Manila.
US Embassy press attaché Matthew Lussenhop declined to comment on the disclosures of Salonga and Arreza because he said he was not privy to such a request but assured that they are adhering to the provisions of the VFA and will make the US servicemen available to the investigators. They will be present throughout the judicial process, he said.
Foreign Undersecretary Zosimo Jesus Paredes, executive director of the RP-US Visiting Forces Agreement Commission,that monitors compliance of the accord, distinguished “jurisdiction” from “custody”.
The VFA states that “Philippine authorities shall have jurisdiction over United States personnel with respect to offenses committed within the Philippines and punishable under the law of the Philippines.”
However, the VFA also states that “The custody of any United Sates personnel over whom the Philippines is to exercise jurisdiction shall immediately reside with the United Sates military authorities, if they so request, from the commission of the offense until completion of the judicial proceedings.”
Bu the VFA also provides that the Philippines can assert custody over the US personnel: “In extraordinary cases, the Philippine Government shall present its position to the United States Government regarding custody, which the United States shall take into account.”
Paredes said that personally he feels that this rape case, the first since the VFA was signed in 1998, falls under “extraordinary case.”
But he stressed the US will have to agree with the Philippines that it’s an “extraordinary case”. He said: “In other words, we cannot demand from them. They have to agree.”
For the Philippines to consider it an “extraordinary case”, a written request will have to be made. As of now, there’s no word that Malacañang considers it an “extraordinary case.”
i am inclined to bet my last penny nothing will come out of this case. not that i’m a pessimist. i want so much that have those rapist die, painfully and slowly. i want that our country assert its right over individuals who cause harm on any of its nationals. but reality haunts me. has there ever been a US service tried in Philippine courts? has there ever been a US national arrested, detained, tried and convicted in the country? this is because all our agreements, arrangments or treaties with the United States or even with some countries have been opened ended, to provide a way out for the contracting party.
i abhor the fact that we constantly have to fight to assert our rights as citizens of this country. it seems we are totally helpless when faced with a goliath like threat on our national dignity. this should not be. this should never be. there should be no comprise when national dignity is involved. but the leadership does. what a shame. indeed, what a shame.
Tamaan sana ng kidlat ang mga may sala. Sana makarma ng matauhan sila sa kanilang ginawa. At sana naman, gumising ang mga namamahala sa ating pamahalaan na ibinoto ng tao at tulungang mabigyan ng katarungan ang pilipinang ginahasa. Kung kayong mga niluklok ng bayan sa pamahalaan ay magsasawalang kibo, baka hindi lang ito ang abutin ng ating mamamayan sa mga banyaga na halos ay inyong dinadakila at dinidiyos, huh!
I’d also like to be an optimist but the way things are moving, it’s all noise. The VFA Commission is under the Office of the President. What does Malacañang say? Let’s not be emotional about this. Meaning, don’t pressure us to pressure the Americans.
Arroyo has no instruction to the VFA Commission to ask for custody of the alleged rapists which is provided for in the VFA. So, after the first few hearings, the U.S. can bring back the accused to Okinawa. They will not be violating the VFA as long as they make them available during hearings.
I don’t fault the Americans for protecting their nationals. That should be the case. Our government should also do the same for our own nationals.
Dignidad, karangalan, prinsipiyo. Mayroon pa ba tayo nito? Mula pa noon hanggang ngayon wala pa ring pagbabago, ginagago pa rin tayo ng mga banyaga. Pero kahit paano noong araw mayroon tayong Lapu-Lapu, Andres Bonifacio, Diego at Gabriela Silang. Gregorio del Pilar at marami pang iba. Ngayon wala na. Kaya, makakuha pa kaya ng hustisya ang ating pinagsamantalahang kababayan? Budhi, damdamin nasaan ka na?
Hindi pa rin ako nawawalan ng pag-asa na may lulutang na Lapu-lapu, Andres Bonifacio, Diego at Gabriela Silang. Adversities produce heroes.
Ellen,
The issue here is rape and not the knee-jerk reaction of questioning the character of the woman.
All the six(6) US marines and the Filipino driver should be prosecuted; if only one actually did the act, the rest should be considered conspirators to the crime. And I guess that should be a death penalty if found guilty (am no lawyer but that’s what I interpret from the law of the land.)
As to whether the six(6) US marines will be successfully prosecuted, convicted and placed in Philippine custody is doubtful given our history in treating offenses and crimes by members of the US military. Furthermore, the Philippines is a signatory to the Bilateral Immunity Agreements (BIA) imposed by the USA as a condition to receiving American foreign aid, etc.
With our historical weakness, our Americanized minds and awe of America, the result is predictably a whitewash. However, I hope I will be wrong.
Please see: http://thefilipinomind.blogspot.com/2005/11/bilateral-immunity-agreements-so.html and http://thefilipinomind.blogspot.com/2005/11/international-criminal-court-icc.html. Thanks
I am absolutely, completely 100% with you about “not being emotional”. This incident has its own built-in “charge”. But let us STOP stoking the fire of emotionalism and sensationalism, under the guise of PATRIOTISM and NATIONALISM. THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE!
I note, thankfully, Ellen that you have posted somewhere else here, the “formal complaint” filed by the victim. I understand perfectly and accept the need to keep the name of the victim, confidential. I do have some personal reservations about the equity of such a “law” (is there such a law), i.e., why doesn’t it apply to the “accused”, in the interest of keeping pure, the principle of “innocence before guilt” is proven (and in this case, beyond a reasonable doubt?) But that is altogether a different issue.
However, I wonder if you will yield to a request. Omitting the name to protect (the victim?)[I thought it was…to protect the innocent]…don’t ask me where I read or heard this…I think media invented and propagated this.
For another, without divulging the name of the complainant (victim), why don’t we know anything about this individual, other than the “media guess” that she is a college girl and comes from a respectable family from Zamboanga.
Further, why don’t we know anything about the details of this alleged “gang rape”, up to now, other than a general description based on the complaint?
For instance, how did the victim end up being in the van? Media has reported that this was a sort of a “blind date”?
That the Americans were friends of the date of the victim’s cousin or close friend who arranged for the date?
So, where did they meet? What time was this? Were all of them together at first? Did they first have dinner, cocktails, dance, movie, or what kind of a date was it?
Where was the close friend or cousin when the victim was in the van getting raped?
WHY HAVE ALL THESE DETAILS BEEN LEFT OUT?????? (very conveniently). The minute the news broke out – MGA KANONG MILITARY GINAHASA ISANG PILIPINA….all hell and pandemonium broke out in media….It has been over a week…and we still do not know anything more NOW, that we were not told since this GANG RAPE took place.
Now, all of a sudden, the FOCUS has been the wisdom, interpretation, (maybe, next time, the constitutionality, even) of the VFA agreement. And everybody and his uncle, and every political pundit, constitutionalist, patrior and nationalist, are spouting all kinds of COMPLAINTS about the existence of a VFA agreement, this, that and the other.
I am hopeful that, at least, in this forum – blogger’s website, we can be first be INFORMED properly. So we can decipher INTELLIGENTLY, based on facts. Just the fucking facts about the alleged gang rape.
The longer the details of the alleged rape is witheld from the public…THE LESS CREDIBLE the complaint becomes.
Just think about this for a moment. Isang dalagang Pilipina (I am assuming she is not married, or she is single), sumama sa date sa kaibigan (or kamaganak na nagpasama, siguro as chaperon or blind date, nga). PERO ANONG KLASENG BLIND DATE YAN? Dalawa laban sa ANIM?
Who believes that????? I DON’T !!!!!
Bakit wala sa “scene of the alleged crime of rape” ang pasimuno sa “group dating” na ito? We don’t even know who she is! Is her name also part of the “attempt to protect the innocent or victim?” BAKIT YUNG ACCUSED LANTAD AGAD ANG MGA PANGALAN AT PINAGTRATRABAHUHAN???
Let me digress a bit. In the USA system of justice, the venue for cases (specially criminal ones) is critical to securing a FAIR TRIAL. So, when the USA requests that the trial be in Okinawa, there is absolutely NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. NONE!
But there would be those who would suggest…”Kasi hawak ng kano ang Okinawa…lulutuin ang kaso!” That is just plain horse shit reasoning.
If we really want to engage in down and dirty mud smear…I will be emboldened and empowered to suggest (because I can present demonstrable proofs)…that if there is any kind of “lutuan of cases” happening, such is most likely to happen in the judicial system of the Philippines. AND EVERYBODY AND HIS UNCLE KNOWS THAT!
So much for this bullshit about custody versus jurisdiction. The fact is established. Physical custody belongs to the USA, as defined in the VFA. Jurisdiction belongs to the Philippines, as a matter of law. And where there is a conflict, of course, the law of the land prevails. HINDI NAMAN KINOKWESTION ITO NG MGA KANO.
So, I would admonish those who propagate that this is a contention to cease and desist from spreading disinformation.
What is being REQUESTED by the USA is a DIFFERENT VENUE for the trial. And the obvious reason for that is quite self-evident. The USA does not believe that their military personnel WILL GET A FAIR TRIAL IN THE PHILIPPINES. And they are within their rights to take that position.
BTW, how many of the 6 involved? Or is it 5 again? …are PILIPINO-NATURALIZED citizens???? Is that important or relevant to the incident. Considering the unjustified “hype” that has been added to the news report on this…YES…that is a most important consideration.
Because if there were “naturalized Americans, who were Pilipino citizens” before, involved…ang tanong ko…”Kung totoo ito, anong klaseng hayup na Pinoy ang mga ito?”
And the answer, I will volunteer, too. “Walang kinaiba sa mga PROMOTER NG MGA PILIPINANG HIKAHOS SA BUHAY, NA MAGING PUTA SA JAPAN, para lang may kabuhayang pantustos sa mga kanila at kanilang pamilyang pangangailangan.” Ganoon! BUGAW!
I feel as strongly, probably even more so, about the crime of RAPE. I will repeat it. That’s a fucking heinous crime!
And truth to admit, I do subscribe to the “eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth” sanction for certain heinous crimes.
Kung ako ang masusunod, lahat ng mahuli na nangahasa….ang punishment, na sapat…no hindi castration (binabawi ko ang dati kong mungkahi)…dapat, bunutan ng ngipin, hanggang mabungi ng husto…WALANG ANAESTHESIA…kasi, pagkatapos noon, siya ay tuluyan ng sira ang sex life and desire niya.
Pag ikaw ay bungal..or bungi…”WALA KAN TOOT”
Think about that!
Pepeton
Ellen, regarding your article, I note the following citations:
1. “The six are in the custody of the United States.
Initially the US said they had five in their custody. That’s because there were five in the van, the scene of the alleged crime. But the victim’s complaint said six. Philippine officials said the six are in US custody.”
Question: Did the USA officials confirm that there are six in their custody? Matter of interest, who was the “sixth” one that seems to be “there but not there”?
2. “Feliciano Salonga, chairman of the Subic Bay Metropolitan Authority…”
Question: What is his official and legal role in the investigation of this incident? Why is he being interviewed? For what specific purpose? And why is he participating, in stead of defering to the Philippine legal – investigative and judicial authorities?
3. US military attache Terry Cook and the investigator of the Navy Criminal Investigation Service expressed that “preference”
COMMENT: Notice the difference? By virtue of his official position, he makes more sense making some comments. Yet, he readily admits, what he is saying is not necessarily the official position of the USA. Something that is not clear in Feliciano Salonga’s participation, i.e., – I will call it at this point – “kibitzing” – but will readily yield to a correction! The irresistable SAD syndrome (Sali Ako Diyan)
3. Armand Arreza, SBMA administrator, said their reply was: “Is that the official US position?”
Question: My question to Armand Arreza is – “Do you have any jurisdictional (legal and official) authority yourself to assert and confirm any position for the Philippine government, by virtue of your being SBMA Administrator?”
4. Arreza said US military officials replied that it was not the official US position. That means, they took a chance that the Filipinos would bite. Baka sakaling makalusot, as we say in Tagalog.
COMMENT: I totally disagree with the characterization. This is STANDARD American legal positioning. Because they know and understand how to use the law to protect their rights. But in the (brainswashed) “mindset” of the Pilipinos, it is true…particularly those who don’t understand how to protect themselves within the law. Kasi, sanay, at ugali ng Pinoy magpalusot!(Pinoys have very little regard for their own law, (lawmakers, law officers, and system of justice) that is why. Tawag dito…in psychology, I read somewhere – “projecting” (one’s own image into a situation).
4. Arreza said: “I guess if we agreed, that would be tantamount to waiving jurisdiction. But we made it clear that jurisdiction should be with the Philippines.”
COMMENT: Legal jurisdiction was never an issue. The Americans are clear about this. The proper Philippine authorities involved in the VFA negotiations are aware of this, too. Arreza is making it sound as if it was he and whoever was with him (Salonga?) who made sure NOW IT IS CLEAR! Pompous bloviating!
5. Salonga said when they told Donahue “No”, the five were offloaded the USS Essex, put in a van and brought to the US Embassy in Manila.
QUESTION: Who is saying FIVE, now? The USA representative or Salonga? Ilan ba talaga? Yung totoo lang. Just the actual facts! Not the alleged facts in the complaint???
This is getting to be very mysterious. Sino ang pinoproteksyunan? Or did the victim actually miscounted?
6. US Embassy press attaché Matthew Lussenhop declined to comment on the disclosures of Salonga and Arreza because he said he was not privy to such a request but assured that they are adhering to the provisions of the VFA and will make the US servicemen available to the investigators. They will be present throughout the judicial process, he said.
COMMENT: First Lussenhop declines…then continues to give his “two cent press opinion” anyway? How can he assure and what does he understand about the USA adhering to the VFA provisions? In what capacity is Lussenhop’s comments cited in your report? His personal views (only)? Or as representative of the USA. One part says, personal. But the other part says…official!?? It is not clear! What is his authority, in the first place as “press attache”?
7. Foreign Undersecretary Zoszimo Jesus Paredes, executive director of the RP-US Visiting Forces Agreement Commission,that monitors compliance of the accord, distinguished “jurisdiction” from “custody”.
COMMENT: Seems like, among all the Pilipino officials cited here, this is the FIRST and ONLY AUTHORITY THAT OUGHT TO BE INVOLVED IN THE DISCUSSIONS AT THIS POINT. All the others, unless, they are officially part of the “circle of authority” ought to just defer any question to the proper authorities within the “circle of authority”. By the same token, an investigative journalist ought to LIMIT, interviews for fact finding to those who are responsible and accountable. This is one way to ensure that the investigation and reporting will not be obfuscated…masyadong madaming gustong pumapel! See how easy it is to understand the distinction between jurisdiction and custody, when the one explaining it has the authority and accountability for the explanation?
8. But the VFA also provides that the Philippines can assert custody over the US personnel.
COMMENT: This is NOT AN ACCURATE STATEMENT. The Philippines CAN NOT ASSERT, under the provision of the VFA CUSTODY over MILITARY PERSONNEL OF THE USA. That is an absolute statement. And standard provision in all other similar international agreement that the USA has with other countries. BELIEVE THAT.
They may REQUEST. Negotiate. Bloviate. Spin. Etc…But the final word is – THE US OF A. If the USA says NO. Then it is NO…The Philippines can assert all the way to the World Court…jump and down, threaten to depose GMA, etc…
IT’ AIN’T GOING TO HAPPEN, UNLESS THE USA SAYS, “OKEY”! That is the fact!
9. Paredes said that personally he feels that this rape case, the first since the VFA was signed in 1998, falls under “extraordinary case.”
But he stressed the US will have to agree with the Philippines that it’s an “extraordinary case”. He said: “In other words, we cannot demand from them. They have to agree.”
COMMENT: See, what I mean? Good. Now we are all clearer! The legitimate authority on the VFA for the Philippine side, admits this is his PERSONAL FEELING, only! No more confusion.
Final Comment: There ought to be no further speculation here about whether Malacanyang ought to consider it an ‘extraordinary case’ or not. Let me put that “purposeful speculative angle” to rest, right here, right now.
If I were to advise Malacanyang, I would, fortwith and forthright “enjoin” the OP, “STAY OUT OF IT”. Let the VFA treaty speak for itself. It is a no win situation for the OP to get involved.
It is a lead on – to a disaster, that can cause irreparable harm: to the relationship between the USA and the Philippines:
* * * if the President deigns to take the “nationalistic-patriotic” position that “the Philippines must have custody. What if the USA says NO???? (Eddie pahiya na naman siya? Eddie ang media has something to criticize her about, again? Duwag. Takot. Dummy ng Kano. etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseam)
* * * if the President intervenes- it will be seen as nothing but pure interference…lalo na if she takes the position…HINDI EXTRA ORDINARY CASE ITO…TAMA SI PINSAN GEORGE! Talagang dummy ng kano!
Malacanyang has NO SAY on this that will redound to the benefit of SOLVING THE ALLEGED CRIME, more justly and more expeditiously!
LAST WORD: I say, let the official authorities of the Philippines EARN THEIR KEEP. Let them do their jobs WITHOUT INTERFERENCE FROM “KIBITZERS”…who can nothing better than take advantage of the situation by “politicizing the incident, by aggrandizing themselves”!
Pepeton
I have not read or heard American officials say that there are six in their custody. Their press statement dated Nov. 3, 2005 said they have 5 in their custody. But Philippines officials say the Americans told them there are six because six have been named in the complaint.
I still have to get the victims’ affidavit at the Olongapo City Prosecutor’s office but based on our coversation with SBMA Chairman Salonga and Administrator Arreza (the incident happened inside SBMA so they took charge of it immediately. They were the ones who interviewed the witnesses, including the driver, and collected evidences) the girl came to Olongapo together with her two sisters. One had a boyfriend in the USS Essex and the other was 12 years old. The victim and her sister together with the sister’s boyfriend went to Neptune Club. The 12 year old was left in the hotel.
It was there at the Neptune Club, evening of Nov. 1, 2005, that the girl got drank. She got separated from her sister. All she could remember in that club was, she was dancing. She remembers being kissed in the van. Then, her next recollection was being dumped on the ground.
It was the driver (who is now modifying his affidavit) who filled in the details ,like when the five called him up (he has been servicing the five since Oct. 10) to come to Neptune and pick them up.He went inside and saw one of his passengers dancing with the girl, who was obviously drunk because she fell several times. She had to be bodily brought to the van. She was in no condition to walk straight even for a short distance.
The driver said in his initial testimony that it was Smith who raped the girl while the others cheered on. He said he heard them cheering “Go, Smith, Go.” He was instructed to keep on driving. (In his modified testimony, he said he didn’t see rape.)
It was about 12 (nearing the first curfew – 12 midnight ) when the van stopped in front of the SBMA office.A black American came out. People standing in front of the SBMA office thought he was going to run to USS Essex to beat the curfew. Witnesses were shocked when two others came out bringing out a young woman, almost naked. They dumped her on the ground and throw her clothes at her. Then they sped off.
The witnesses were able to take down the Starex van’s plate number. The van was stopped at the gate much, much later minus the Marines (the second curfew was at 2 a.m.)
The sister (who had a boyfriend) said that when she couldn’t find the sister at Neptune Club, she went back to the hotel thinking that she had gone back ahead of her.
It was only when she was notified by SBMA officials that she learned of what happened to her sister. I’m not sure if the victim is the eldest of the three.
Pepeton, I agree with you that if we have to protect the identity of the alleged victim, we should also do the same for the accused.
I had a dilemma when I posted the complaint. But since the names of the accused have been written, I thought it was pointless for me to delete it.
As for the name of the victim, it has not yet been divulged and I don’t want to be the one to do it first.
Salamat, Ellen. As always, you can be depended upon for straightforward reporting. Let me, now, share with you and our other “co-bloggers” here, the version which I just received – “from the side of the accused”. (Meaning: “Those who believe this is a set-up. Based on their actual experiences in the Philippines. Not limited to American or other foreign military personnel. But in fact, including local Armed Forces of the Philippines, personnel.)
Background:
There was a similar case reported months back by Manila Standard, that in fact, involved a PMAer. The alleged “minor” girl who was the “alleged victim” of staturoy rape, brought a complaint – to a reporter of Manila Standard, who published the story, unfortunately, without thoroughly checking out, BOTH SIDES. She complained she was “abused by a Colonel, and was pregnant”, and threatened to sue and create a big scene, unless…you can deduce, the rest of the “unless”!
As it turned out, after another a more diligent reporter got involved, the “girl” was not a 15 to 17 year old “minor”, but was in fact, 23 years old. She had a former boy friend – an adjutant, or assistant of the colonel of some kind. ZAMBOANGA DIN ITO. Who actually fathered the first child of this woman. The plot thickened along with every exsena.
End of story: based on documented records. The woman eventually withdrew her complaint. The Colonel’s record was “purged” (kono). However, in subsequent developments, this colonel who had been in line for promotion to general never got his commission. This officer does not have one black mark in his record. He has been at the forefront of battling with drug smugglers, that I personally know for a fact, but who has successfully stayed out of media limelight. Those in his immediate circle know his character and track record quite well, and it is easy to find those who will vouch – “hindi gagawa ng ganoon yung si Colonel. He had a chance for “quick promotion” before, but declined on the ground that, “pangit tignan kung mauuna pa ako doon sa mga “senior mistahs ko”. I will get my promotion in due time, I know. I can wait.”
Here is the kicker. As it turned up, the whole “frame up” was set up by another “faction in the military”. Precisely because, they wanted to block this colonel’s promotion, which seemed all but imminent. Reason? Meron silang sarili nilang “kandidato”, who will be “more responsive and cooperative to the needs of the military personnel.” Tumahimik lang si Colonel, when he found out about this. Iba talaga ang “mistaship”. Just when you think you understand it…
—————o0o————-
In other words, the idea of using “rape”, against a military personnel, is nothing unique or unusual in the Philippines. Among locals they do it. Lalo na among “foreign military personnel”. I am told…bale wala yan. There have been many different or similar cases. Parepareho ang modus operandi. Here then is the version I got:
Hello Senor Pepiton d Anton:
Hahaha! Yung tungkol kay “tolpu”,ang nangyari kay XXXXXXX ay talagang sinadya para mapahamak siya. Kuryente-doble-short circuit-kuryente. Alam nya na mali kanya lang ang instruction sa kanya ay hulihin si XXXX. Syempre utos ni XXXXXXX at XXXXXXX (dalawang bosing yata yan),eh di sunod sunod ang pobre. Sabi sa kaniya ay tumahimik na lang siya at wag nang mag comment. Kaya ayun – na-Magsaysay is my guy, no kibo so mokmok. Iyan ang totoo. Wala akong pakialam maski ano ang isulat ng iba. Alam ko. Kwawa naman ang pare ko. Pero ganoon ang buhay dito sa Pinas. Pakapalan lang ika nga. Labas ako diyan. Wala akong kinakampihan, lamang o hindi. Pero hawa ang nangyayari sa kumpare ko. Pasalamat dehins tayo involved. Kamuntik na.
Ang Rape case naman. Ay naku same MO nang kay XXXX noong sa Zamboanga. ne rape case din. remember wen? ito halos ganoon din.
Gawa gawa lang nang babae yan. Lasing na nlasing si babae. Imagine mo naman ito.
8 sila sa van na Starex Van(KIA). Ang mga US Marines ay may height na mga 6ft. Ang mga weight ay almost mga 180-200#.
How in the world mo naman na ma rape si babae.Masyadong masikip ang van. 6 Marines,1 Filipino driver and 1 female ke taching o hindi. yung logistics lang…credible ba yan?
Sigue nga imagine that. Eto pa mayroon bang ni rape na nasa ibabaw si babae. Hindi pa lumalabas yan. Tignan nating kung ano ang mangyayari, pag nabulgar yan.
Eto ang version nang US. Binigyan daw nang pass till midnight ang mga marino.So itong mga ito ay nag rent nang van.Of coursse may driver.So itong si driver ang nagbigay nang babae itong nga aledge victim KUNO.
Eh di nang good time sa NEPTUNE CLUB. Ed di na lasing so malapait nang mag 12:00 midnight natural takbuhan ang mga kanong marino (standard yan maski pinoy military).Eh katatapos lang mag do itong dalawa sa likod nang van.Sabay hugot taas pantalon si marinong kano at sabay takbo papuntang barko.
In the meantime si babae naman ay kasalukuyan na nag lalagay nag kanya “tipants, or salu-eng-eng” sa may side na upuan sa second row nang van.
Guess what happen? When she was pulling her panty up na tabig siya kasi she was near the door at ayon nahulog sa van si gaga na ang panty ay half way up.
Eh may mga tao nanakakita sa kanya napahiya. Ayun CRY RAPE si kulaspira.
Mas credible ba? Medyo malabo din yung pagkahulog sa van. Yung parteng yun, duda din ako. Pero, whatever yan…no epek on da pekpek, sabi mo nga!
Alam mo if it was true na she was raped I will be the first one to campaign against the American. And kilala mo ako. You know that. Huwag nilang sabihing dahil nagtapos sa US military ang erpats…kung totoo lang, talagang ako mismo I will lead a demo in front of the Embassy.
Pero itong isang ito any paris ang ginanwa kay XXXXXX eto pa she came from mindanao. (Zamboanga) now what on earth is she doing in Subic.
Eh di sinundan nya etong mga marino na eto na galing sa Zamboanga. Say mo ngayon..diyan sa story nang rape na eto…Gusto ata nang US VISA eh.O baka naman gustong makita and disneyland at mickey mouse. Better still baka gustong maging artita sa hollywood.hahaha
Sorry pardner. Hindi nakakatawa. Hindi ko pinagtatawanan. Kaya lang…napakadami na ng ganyang istorya. Ito ay not the first. And sure ako, not the last, either.
Besides, totoo, or hindi, ano ba ang kalalabasan nito? Sabi mo nga…sige, totohanan, lantaran, salpukan tayo, mga katotong dila. Ano?
Malabo ang istorya – parehong may butas. Ewan ko talaga sino ang nag-cover up versus sino ang nag frame up. But this story, stinks, both sides. Therefore, my take – “walang kaso yan”!
Just like yung kumpare kong sumabit sa “false arrest”. Okey lang.
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Ellen, there are a few pieces of the two different versions of the story (what you were told versus what I have been informed), that are common: Neptune Club. Lasing. Woman abandoned half naked.
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I have also heard from another source, additionally: “yung driver ang bugaw.” However, nobody who supports this version has been able to come out with a credible, reasonable explanation, “how come the woman was left half naked on the street?”
I don’t buy the American version na “nahulog sa van”. Bull shit! Bakit hindi nila tinulungan? Yung excuse – “nagmamadali, almost midnight na, deadline ng pass nila.” Another horseshit, if you ask me.
And if I have to wade on this part of the anecdote, I would say -“siguro gusto ng kano mag-wan-two-three…hindi nabayaran ang babae…gustong takbuhan”, and since we are just speculating about this, dadagdag ko na – yung dalawang pinoy naturalized Amboy, siguro ang nagencourage pa –
“doncha weri. Lesss go, my fellow yankees. she will survive. sanay sa hirap yan. bilisan mo dudong, huli na kami…madedetention kami, sa walang kakwenta-kwentang bagay…baka wala na tuloy ng next time.Bilisan mo.”
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At this point,I am inclined to believe, in the absence of other more credible evidence, this was NOT A RAPE CASE. There is some kind of case involved here. Ano kaya, breach of contract? Ano, ayaw magbayad? (Pero a contract to be valid must have a legal consideration. Transactions like this are illegal. Kaya baka hindi umubra ang breach of contract. And yes, kung tinulak, with physical injuries, aba, puedeng aggravated assault. Puede ding “frustrated manslaughter” PERO RAPE????? I seriously doubt it!!!!! The more I learn, the more INCREDIBLE the rape story becomes.
I can be totally wrong, of course.
Pepeton
The RP-US VFA must be revised. It’s a lopsided agreement with provisions that virtually cancel each other.
With regards the rape accusation against the 5 US servicemen, the only way to know whether a crime was committed is to go on with the investigation. The Philippines authorities must flex some muscles – rape is a serious accusation – and must require the accused to face the accusation but should also assure them that the Rule of Law will prevail.
Just to keep our discussion on the same page, Ms. Anna de Brux…Please note Ellen Tordesillas’ explanation:
* The formal complaint filed by the victim accuses SIX servicemen (6).
* However, nowhere has Ellen found, or heard from the US officials that there were more than FIVE (5) servicemen involved.
In criminal cases, this is NOT a minor point.
With regard your recommendation, that “RP-US VFA must be revised,” I must urge you to explain and justify your position. What do you mean by asserting that “It’s a lopsided agreement with provisions that virtually cancel each other.”
If one provision cancels another, then how can the agreement be “lop-sided”?
Please give some examples of what provisions you are referring to!
Thanks.
Pepeton
Pepeton,
I am getting a bit lost because of your tortuous tirades (tedious to say the least) – what excactly do you have in mind?
Re your last blog:I suggest that if you don’t know the offending provisions in the VFA, go look for them – I won’t do the job for you. Morevover, if you don’t believe that the 5 or 6 US servicemen committed rape and want to ‘lawyer’ for them, that’s your problem. I am tempted to advise you to go play with the traffic but I won’t do it. If you haven’t got the gist of what I said previously, by George, don’t expect me to embark on a re-explanation. End of story!
By the way, Ellen, it seems the rape case issue is starting to crumble in the media. Any developments? Thanks.
Regards.
Ms. Anna de Brux,
Finally, you have come clean to admit your limitations. The first honest posting you have made. Evasiveness is common in the cyberworld and space. Fortunately, I am around to spot and expose these. Sarcasm is the last resort of shattered intellects. And unless you can and are prepared to defend your allegations, your bigoted value judgments, and rationalize (as in provide intelligent and flawless logic), as we say – IN PLAZA MIRANDA, don’t do it here either. Ditoo with your bloviating and name droppings.
Allegations are not proofs. These can just be preconceived notions, prejudices and bigotries. Name dropping does not constitute acceptable “proof of authority” either. It is REASON and LOGIC. Both are always on sale….everywhere, to those who are not afraid to afford it!
There you go again…”it seems the rape case issue is starting to crumble in the media…” There is no case, yet. Only a formal complaint alleging “force majeure”. Issues have not been joined. Stop reading (the news), if you cannot understand and distinguish between the facts and the spins! The spins STOP HERE! Bilibid or not!
Pepeton
So?
Pepeton, you are getting absolutely paranoid. If you don’t watch it, you will end up in Mandaluyong!
By the way, have you heard of developments regarding the rape case/issue?
P.S: Btw, talking of inconsistencies and pomposity… Pepeton, because you are an unbridled inconsistent and a pompous (ooops, almost typed ‘fart’ but caught myself on time) bore (ahh, that’s a nicer if not a more appropriate word), it is only fair (I wish to be fair) to inform you that I’ve decided that I will not be drawn into a protracted senseless argument with you.
Whew! Frankly, such aggression in a petty pépéton is just too much for a simple sailor like me. My parting shot before we part: Pépéton, don’t use a word of which you have no prior notion, i.e., logic, reason, etc.
Your comments will be read by Kitty from hereon, that is if she feels like doing it.
End of story!
Itigil, itigil, itigil muna natin
Ang balitaktakan at usapang madiin;
Iunat ang katawan at humugot ng hangin,
Hiningang sariwa’t hiningang malalim.
Hayaang ang mukha ay mahimasmasan
At ang init nitong ngiti ay sa pisngi dumarang;
Pitasin nyo ang kindat sa matang malamlam,
Iunat ang mga braso at kayo’y magkamayan.
Ngayong kapwa kayo may pag-ibig na nadama
Sa init ng kamayan na inyong ginawa,
Hasain ang lapis at sa papel ay ilagda,
Mga balitaktakan. . . tuloy po ang ligaya!
Atong
Ms Anna de Brux…is apologizing again! I should have explained at the outset. I am a cardiologist. I do open heart surgery and transplant, pro bono…but if someone wants the procedure PAINLESS, the anaesthesia is EXTRA and will COST something.
DISCLAIMER: I took up the postings of MS. De Brux to tasks for several reasons:
1. Her allegations are based on pure “anecdotal propaganda”, that have been bruited about by decidedly anti-administration. Serve no purpose but MISLEAD and MISINFORM.
2. I had hoped she would take up the challenge and prove me wrong by citing demonstrable proofs, or intelligent and reasonable deductions or inductions. She refused to engage at this level, and resorted to the typical evasive tactic employed by…bloviators and wannabee political pundits.
3. She has an inexhaustible repertory and inventory of baseless charges and accusations. But cannot, and will not attempt to prove, when challenged.
4. She loves to drop names and relationships, in obvious attempts to sound convincing and “authoritative about her sources”. When all that is required is the authority of sound, consistent and logical reasoning.
The fact is, GMA is the president of the Philippines. The fact is rape has not been proven. The fact is – it is easy to make up stories to fit one’s own mindset (bigotry)…much the same fashion a statistician fits the predetermined points to a pre-empted curve. Like putting the cart before the horse.
In another setting, a different ambiant…like “making chism in hotel lobbies and coffee shops…or what they refer to in Manila circles as chika-chika, ang style ni Ms. de Brux, puede na …at baka impressive na paniwalaan siya.
But in a forum like this? I don’t think so.
The internet is a wonderful invention. But only if we are sincere about using it to share intelligence and information…and not prejudices and bigotries…UNPROVEN MINDSETS, fall under these categories.
And such has been the plight of Philippine media also…that it has, for too long been simply recyling anecdotal accounts and allegations, and unproven theories and speculations…because the truth is…much of what we read and hear…are news that have been sold and paid for.
I simply refuse to buy these!
Noblesse oblige!
Pepeton
Ellen,
I read somewhere that the rape victim went to Olongapo City with her stepsister. An SBMA asst director was reported to have opined that they were definitely not loose women.
Let’s press on with the investigation and push for those 5 or 6 US servicemen to face the charges of gang rape.
Cheers.
yes, she went there with her stepsister and a 12-year old sister. The stepsister has a boyfriend in USS Essex, where the six accused were also assigned.
Rape is unjustified, whoever, whatever is the victim.
Ellen,
Amen and amen to that again and again!
Is it true that the accused are already out of the country? If that’s true, getting them back is virtually nil unless of course the victim’s lawyers headed by Katrina Legarda can rouse the masses, the media and all the others to come to the victim’s succor and cry the old-fashion cry of “Yankees go home!” or something like that. That should get Americans thinking again and may send those servicemen back to face their accuser in RP courts.
The US embassy said the accused are in the embassy premises. Undersecretary Zosimo Paredes, executive director of the VFA Commission, met with the accused last week at the embassy. So we have to take their word for.
But there’s really nothing in the VFA that says they have to be in Manila all the time. It merely says that the US is required for one year during the trial to make them available during hearings. After one year, they can be sent to other foreign assignments and the U.S. has no obligation to have them present during the trial.
What happens now? Word is out…the alleged “victim of rape” wants to recant and reduce her complaint to “acts of lasciviousness”. What now?
The driver wants to recant his earlier testimony, from “gang rape” to “I never used those words”.
In both cases, what do the government prosecutors say? To the driver, they subpoenaed him…and threatened to charge him with perjury and as an accomplice…pinipilit pa din na may rape. Ang tigas ng PRIDE talaga ng mga bobo!
To the “allege victim”, what Senator Santiago wants is for the government to sue her for “perjury”, if she reduces her charges against the servicemen. Awat na Brenda. She has the constitutional right to change her mind and drop charges.
So, now that the prosecution has resorted to CHEAP BLACKMAIL, what will ANTI-ADMINISTRATION MEDIA BLOVIATORS SPIN from these revelations?
STUPID IS, STUPID DOES, Forrest Gump said. How true. These fawning, feigning and frothing, livid-with-hate and frustrations na liberal-radical-leftwinging seditious anarchists have all been desperately trying to use this “alleged incident of rape” to screw the VFA (with the ulterior motives of, again, undermining the GMA administratin by implication)….AND IT’S NOT WORRRKINNNG.
Ang hirap hirap kumuha ng RELIABLE WITNESS, now all they have are HOSTILE WITNESSES…what? They will destroy the credibility of their own witness? How da hell are they going to win any case???
But then, what the helll…look at what they are doing with…..”Hellllowwwww Garci….tangina mo…will you testify against GMA, leche ka?? You’re the last to know…pinagbili ka ng asawa mo…ano, mag state witness ka na….’dot ka! Kung hindi paaresto at pakukulung kita tarantado ka.”
Wow-wow-weeeee, galing ng Pinoy talaga….(mag suicide)
PJA
E-mail from Jeannie Fabroa:
Ellen, I opened your blog. interesting. i don’t know how to use it to input my penny’s worth. am resorting to your email.
On the premise that the factual data are as the media (I have had no time to access original and unassailable information) reported it, my attitude is that I am not sorry for this woman. the militants and the feminists will castrate me if they can, but the bottomline of the woman’s behavior is that she had her ordeal coming.
in any context, in the philippines or elsewhere, at any point in history, no woman, even in her most bizarre state, would go out alone at that time of night with four, five (six including the driver?) men who are complete strangers to an enclosed (the van) destination and move around in alien territory (subic) that has had, or still has, a reputation for sleaze and cheap good time.
i do not approve of what has happened to her, but the burden of proof and responsibility for her case was largely hers.
if it is true that her relatives/friends were in the club with her, and knowing that she and her supposed attackers were in a state of “uncontrolled public behavior” (petting, deep kissing, etc), why did they allow her to move in with the americans to the van? wasn’t that calling for trouble? they practically released her for the birds of prey to devour.
if she was indeed of the “good” family and “good” educational background that she was portrayed to be, why had she not sought fun and good time with foreigners without having to get so drunk as to darken her judgment and expose herself to such wanton behavior?
I squirm at the thought that this college-educated, allegedly well-bred, adult woman
would be so lacking in perspicacity and circumspect!
most women of “good background” will have a game-plan, a pleasant and self-respecting one that is, when engaged in an activity involving the opposite sex–whether it’s a healthy blind date, or a “promdi” curiousity and excitement over subic and American soldiers.
A good, well-bred, college-educated, adult woman has the discernment that one could only drink so much, dance so much, and socialize with non-friends so much. It’s a discernment and a circumspection that “Cinderella liberty” in a sense applied not only to her alleged tormentors but most especially to her.
i am tired of women like the Zamboanga adult who underwent an ordeal and painting hersekf as helpless victim then putting the blame solely on men. Such victim syndrome demeans true feminism, blemishing the movement of accusations that it is a boy who cries wolf.
the irreversible reality is that women bear the womb and genitalia that once molested against the will, lead not only to lose of self-respect and mental healthiness, but also leave physical scars.
INDEED, UNTIL GENERAL SOCIETY ITSELF REVERSES ITS IDEOLOGY, WOMEN DO SUFFER MUCH MORE THAN MEN CAN EVER THINK OF!
That is why women bear the extra burden of not allowing themselves to be preyed upon–because, no matter the advancements of the new millennium, vultures are on the ready out there. And they are not necessarily foreigners, or soldeirs, or Americans, or men!
Our body is ourselves; who will protect it but the mind and brain inside it? If that’s not common sensical, what is?
Women, behold ourselves!”
Jeannie Fabroa
A mindanaoan
Let justice be done.