CCM continues to be vigilant in demanding good governance from elected officials regardless of personalities.
CCM is gravely concerned about the way the Aquino government is handling the crisis involving Filipinos in Lahad Datu, Sabah. Following is CCM’s statement:
“Let’s not even talk of the Philippine title to Sabah which the P-Noy administration is apparently still studying. Let’s just talk about basic obligations, and not just privileges of states.
“As early as 1928 in the Las Palmas case where we lost title over the island of Palmas, the international law has always recognized that states have concomitant obligations with their rights as sovereign. As held by the lone arbitrator Max Huber: “Territorial sovereignty, as has already been said, involves the exclusive right to display the activities of a State. This right has a corollary, a duty: the obligation to protect within the territory the rights of other States, in particular their right to integrity and inviolability in peace and in war, together with the rights which each State may claim for its nationals in foreign territory”.
“The right of a state to claim rights for its nationals abroad is referred to as “diplomatic protection”. Here, the duty of the state is to ensure that states treat their nationals abroad in a manner that complies with human standards recognized under the International Covenant on Civil and Political rights, among others documents.
“In connection with the current stand-off in Sabah, this should mean that the primary obligation of the Philippine government is to ensure the safety of the 200 or so followers of the Sultanate of Sulu, as well as to ensure that Malaysia should comply with its duty to protect and promote their human rights which should include the right to life, and the right to due process of law.
“Stripped of legal legalese, the Philippine government owes the Filipinos holed up in Sabah the duty to ensure that they do not become victims to extralegal killings. There is an extralegal killing when the taking of life is without due process of law. This means that before Malaysians could shoot at our countrymen, they should apprehend, prosecute and find them guilty of violating Malaysian domestic law before they are meted the penalty of death.
“Government response to the stand-off has however been deplorable. Instead of taking steps to espouse the human rights of our fellowmen in Sabah, they have openly sided with Malaysian authorities and have all but warned them that their massacre is inevitable. Worse, government appeared to have ordered them to return so that they can be prosecuted criminally in the Philippines for rebellion and other crimes. With this kind of conduct by the Philippine government, who needs government to give this kind of protection?
“The P-Noy administration instead should make the safety of our nationals non-negotiable. If we could plead with leaders of the world to spare convicted drug mules from being meted the death penalty, why should we not plead likewise of 200 or so our countrymen who are in Sabah to seek redress for their grievances as those with title to the island of Sabah.
“ It does not help any that Philippine authorities appear ignorant of the Sabah claim despite the fact that it has been constitutionalized in article 1 of both the 1935 and 1987 Constitution. Governments’ initiatives to still study the Sabah claim brings to mind the legal saying that “ignorance of the law excuses no one from compliance therewith”.
“ In this regard, Philippine authorities should blame themselves for their ignorance of the Sabah claim. They should certainly not be negligent in their obligation to provide protection to Filipinos overseas because of their own ignorance.
“CCM, as a civil society organization that has been consistently in the forefront of the fight against the evil GMA regime, condemns and deplores the government of P-Noy for its obvious dereliction of its duty to exercise diplomatic protection to our countrymen from Sulu in Sabah.
“While CCM does not regret having opposed the GMA administration, for is corrupt ways, it now wonders how competent the P-Noy administration is in discharging its basic obligations such as protecting its nationals.”
Art II, Sec. 4. of the Philippine Constitution:
The prime duty of the Government is to serve and protect the people.
DEL ROSARIO APPROVED ‘TERRORIST’ TAG ON INTRUDERS: MALAYSIA
“Malaysia’s Attorney General also wants to study the charges to be filed in Manila against the supporters of Sulu Sultan Jamalul Kiram III.”
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/03/05/13/del-rosario-approved-terrorist-tag-intruders-malaysia
BBC’s Kate McGeown observes:
Full story here.
tuloy ko, tongue…
“Perhaps the Malaysians volunteered precisely because they don’t want the Sabah claims to be revived.”
Sakto!
“But even if Mr Aquino does not want to deal with the Sabah issue right now, he knows he cannot just ignore Sulu’s claims.”
History will be unkind to Mr. Aquino if he continues to commit missteps. Now is the time to prove us he could be a reliable president.
dapat kasi actionan na ni president yan, wag yung huli na ang lahat bago pa sya gumawa ng mga action. dapat wag nya ito baliwalain dahil may possibilities na madadamay ang buong Pilipinas sa issue nato.
Your Philippine President who is always wearing a yellow ribbon can be an effective high school classroom president (or will he?), but never as a President of a country like the Philippines. Res ipsa loquitor (The thing speaks for itself). He was not able to solve the Luneta incident involving Chinese tourists which was very simple, how could he ever solve the Sabah issue that involves very complicated matters. He will just leave that to the discretion of the Malaysian government with an implied suggestion of “Go ahead massacre the Filipinos in Sabah and those who survive I will slap them with criminal charges when they return to the Philippines.” He could just regress himself inside his room under the table and keep busy with his play station with his nephew.
Jarius Bondoc’s blow-by-blow account is akin to a bestseller miniseries…
http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2013/03/01/914403/govt-leaving-sultan-no-options-phl
http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2013/03/04/915563/no-harm-assuring-sultan-his-claim-lives
http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2013/03/06/916342/impending-defeat-can-end-jamalul-royalty-control
This is a classic case of all parties claiming to be right: 1)The sultanate claiming they are right in going to Sabah since they claim the land is theirs, even if they bring arms to Sabah (which they think is still right); 2)the Malaysian government thinks it is right in protecting its sovereignty; 3) the PNoy administration thinks that the way it is handling the situation is right; 4)the Concerned Citizens Movement thinks its position on the situation is also right 5) as all the columnists, Misuari, etc. all think that their position and thinking on the Sabah issue/situation is right. And each party thinks the other parties are WRONG. What a mess. Who will decide who it right? God or Allah? I think even God or Allah would not want to get involve in this situation where the boundaries of RIGHT and WRONG are quite hazy!
How do you “protect” people who are not actually wanting protection?
http://www.rappler.com/nation/23154-kiram-refused-ph,-malaysia-deal
Aquino did by virtue of reminding Kiram to call his boys home. That there will be unnecessary bloodshed.
Moreso, Aquino’s call for withdrawal (surrender) was also to protect the lives of those who are affected by this drama, the people who were in Sabah, both Filipinos and Malaysians.
@Chi, like you, I have my own mistrust with the Malaysians.
Just take a look at its history as a “short union” with Singapore and you’d see not everything is really what it appears.
But in Kiram’s action, we can’t blame Malaysia. They are going to react the way they reacted, and I for one won’t fault them. And with reports of armed men (If I am not mistaken, Kiram himself said that his men are armed and are there to stay), I highly doubt the Malaysians would say, welcome mga mamang may baril!
See it at their point of view, irregardless of the Sabah claim or not.
Now, see the effect that Kiram’s action has done. Not only was there bloodshed but also that Malaysia has proven it can defend it “lupa” (be it questionable to both you and me).
Are when then forcing Aquino to wage war with Malaysia for something we are not certain to be credible with? And that this “revisit” was instigated by one of our own fellow Filipino (Kiram).
The fighting that Kiram instigated did not do us any favor.
I think Aquino’s legacy is pretty much ok. He did not go to war just because he followed an emotion.
Personally, as much as I don’t want this to happen, I would rather we prepare to consider losing Sabah than turning it into a Gaza.
#5 agree! It has become a situation where We are right and and everybody else is wrong.
Wrong!
Ewan, bigla akong natawa sa sagot ni tongue #12. 🙂
Ellen, I took the liberty to copy tongue’s revelations here kasi haba-haba na sa previous loop. Thanks.
—
#80. TonGuE-tWisTeD – March 6, 2013 12:05 pm
I believe Tita Cory and former DFA head Raul Manglapus already saw the “equation” before in their decision to drop the Sabah claim. The HOR then realized it too. The Senate then, I believe, was the stumbling block…
There is something much more deeper than what we are seeing on the surface. To me, the Cojuangco and Aquino clans have been consistently hostile, at best, antagonistic, to any Filipino claim to Sabah. Starting with Ninoy’s father, then Sen. Sumulong’s anti reclamation privy speech, Ninoy’s ratting on Merdeka, Cory’s constitutional default, now Noynoy’s pro-Malaysian stance. They are consistent, right?
The question is, why o why?
#81.TonGuE-tWisTeD – March 6, 2013 12:09 pm
Meron pa pala, Si Tingting. Officially a Tarlaquena who needs to explain why she is too involved in issues pertaining to the Muslim in the south.
#82. TonGuE-tWisTeD – March 6, 2013 12:16 pm
Meron pa pala uli, si Uncle Danding nga pala has bought Esso/Exxon-Mobil in Malaysia and some 200 gas stations in Malaysia are currently being rebranded as Petron.
Of course there’s Uncle Tonyboy who is JV partner of the Malaysians in Air Asia.
Guess who owns huge palm oil factories in Sabah?
Now those who doubt Kiram and proclaim all these is just pera-pera lang is absofuckinglutely correct!
If the above revelations are the real reasons why Aquino is adamant to fulfill his constitutional duty to protect Filipinos, dafuq talaga!
Oh yeah, reminds of the KAMAG-ANAK Corporation!
@chi,
How about a cheering squad for your princess…
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/photo/33470/sultan-s-daughter-feeds-media-fake-image-of-malaysian-casualties
bay, a-tapang din princess na yan. Kung ganyan din ang courage ng lahat ng prinsesa na legal heirs/claimants ng Sabah instead of discrediting one another, mapipilitan ang Pinas at Malaysia to sit down with them.
Ibang klase ka, chi.
Nahuli na ngang nagsisinungaling…kinampihan mo pa?
Ang tapang…ng apog!
David Yu Santos’ post in Facebook on that fake photo. David Santos is a TV reporter:
This is how I understand how that photo came to be. But I can be corrected by those who were there, too.
That tablet she’s holding belongs to a journalist. On Sunday afternoon, while journalists were inside the Kiram’s home and were waiting for news from Sabah to trickle in, Princess Jacel sat beside a group of media men and chatted with them.
Then one of the journalists showed that photo to her. They began discussing about the photo and apparently, she made comments about it. She was told the photo was posted online. Initially, it was thought that the ‘victims’ were Sultan’s men.
A TV reporter (not me, hehe) was asking for the website where the photo was lifted but no one cared to answer. The Princess, while looking at the photo, caught the attention of photojournalists who were also there. They immediately took photos of her holding the tablet. The photogs, around 5-6 of them inside that small space in the sala, swarmed and cajoled her to show it to them so they can shoot photos. “Princess, pakita nyo po sa amin,” one photog exclaimed.
In fairness to Princess Jacel, I overheard her saying “Teka muna, i-check muna natin kung mga Royal Army talaga ito.” At one point, someone in the group speculated that the ‘victims’ could be members of the Malaysian forces ‘kasi puro taga ang sugat nila.’
Then Princess Jacel stood up to talk to her uncle and designated spokesman of the family, Abraham Idjirani, who was having his lunch in the dining room. Di ko na narinig kung ano napag-usapan nila ni Mr Idjirani and how this ‘controversial photo’ was eventually taken.
#19. Ay sori bay, hindi ko masyadong napansin ang caption kung sino ang sino na nag-fake. Of course, ang mali ay mali, lalo na at lahat sila ngayon ay umaangkin ng trono.
Ang puntos ko dyan, sa halip na daanin nila sa props at media, magkaisa at ng meron silang power. Sa ngayon, mahina ang laban nila/lahat ng legal heirs isang rason dahil watak-watak sila.
#20. Yun naman pala ang kwento, so lahat ng lumalabas ngayon at subject sa verification.
#19. bay, I am not for any heirs/claimants here as I was saying all the time that they are all legal so all of them have the right to claim, of course following the process.
The Kirams unfortunately chose to go to Sabah armed, and that is wrong. But my point is instead of just threats, Pnoy might have at least considered sitting down with the heirs himself and discuss while the ‘invasion’ was going on.
#88 at least was there to tell a story albeit not complete.
FVR to Aquino: Convene security council
By Jerome Aning
Philippine Daily Inquirer
Former President Fidel V. Ramos on Wednesday stressed he never abandoned the Philippine claim to Sabah and urged President Aquino and Sulu Sultan Jamalul Kiram III to meet face to face to discuss how to end the standoff in the Malaysian state.
“The two principals should meet one on one, just the two of them, face to face,” … http://globalnation.inquirer.net/67313/fvr-to-aquino-convene-security-council
—
Dito, magkasundo kami ni FVR!
Problem is that Pnoy does not recognize Kiram 111 as the legal sultan, a reason maybe why he is not considering a meeting. But, as president he can always call the major representatives of the heirs. What gives?
Nakisawsaw na naman si Tabako. Kausapin daw ni Noynoy si Kiram, tulad ng ginawa niya nung siya ay presidente. Yes Noynoy should talk to Kiram like FVR did. They talked. And then FVR give Kiram a post in his administration.
What position did he give Kiram?
To quote Raffy Alunan, a member of FVR’s cabinet, “he (Kiram) was part of the ramos administration in the area of sports, penca silak.”
What the F is penca silak?
Yeah, that’s the ticket. Reappoint Kiram to oversee “penca silak”. An obscure sport. Show Noynoy how seriously you took Kiram. Penca silak. Nalnampucha naman o!
Thanks for the tip, FVR. Now go back to sipping your arroz caldo.
DFA apologizes over lost Sulu letters for PNoy
http://www.abs/cbnnews
—
Bakit ngayon lang umamin na nawala/tinapon ang mga sulat? So, “sorry” na naman lang tapos dami ng patay Pinoy at Malay? Ano ba ito, DFA?! Gosh, kayo ang nagpahamak kay Pnoy, kung hindi nyo binasura ang letters baka may 001% pa na naaksyunan bago ‘lumusob’ ang followers ni Kiram sa Sabah.
Na-hostage ng DFA dito si Pnoy! The buck stops with Sec. del Rosario daw, anupa nga ba kundi mag-Hillary Clinton na lang.
Why is del rosario apologizing for something that happened when he was not yet with the DFA. 2010, the secretary of foreign affairs was still alberto romulo.
It’s obvious Malacanang is in a damage control mode.they need a willing scapegoat.
They will also try to deflect the issue. De Lima released the Atimonan findings.
Ellen, tatlo daw kasi ang sulat, the other two follow ups was 2011 and 2012 kaya siguro nasama si del Rosario. Anyway, why only now that DFA release an apology? Something fishy talaga.
Here’s a contrary opinion by Randy David, a respected academician and Inquirer columnist:
http://opinion.inquirer.net/48247/the-real-sovereign
I saw that photo at Sandakan dot com.
Was Sabah a colony of England? If not, how can they be decolonized? I smell the dirty hand of the brits in that referendum. How can a less sophisticated people join a new country whose capital is thousands of miles away than the second best country in asia at that time? Sabah cannot be decolonized. It is not a colony. Self determination cannot be given since they are the subjects of the sultan. only the sultan can give that.
The CCM issues a statement of concern about events in Sabah. We should all be concerned. But let the language of propaganda hide behind the facade of concern.
Look at these:
1. “the primary obligation of the Philippine government is to ensure the safety of the 200 or so followers of the Sultanate of Sulu…”
insert armed before the word followers, and add that they entered Sabah with the intent of taking Sabah
2. “…owes the Filipinos holed up in Sabah the duty to ensure that they do not become victims to extralegal killings….this means that before Malaysians could shoot at our countrymen, they should apprehend, prosecute and find them guilty of violating Malaysian domestic law before they are meted the penalty of death.”
Holed up? They invaded a foreign country, they were asked to leave, they were asked to lay down their arms, they were given deadlines that were extended more than once. What is a country facing foreign invaders no matter how comical they are supposed to do? Are they supposed to send in policemen to say you are all under arrest? HIndi nga ba sinabi ng kampo ni Kiram fight to the death sila?
3.”Instead of taking steps to espouse the human rights of our fellowmen in Sabah, they have openly sided with Malaysian authorities and have all but warned them that their massacre is inevitable.”
The gov’t took steps to prevent bloodshed. How exactly did they side with Malaysia? Did the govt side with Malaysia when it reminded the Kirams that their method was wrong and they could get themselves killed?
4. “If we could plead with leaders of the world to spare convicted drug mules…”
Where is the analogy between pleading to spare a convicted drug mule from death penalty, just impose a life sentence, and pleading to a government not to use force against armed foreign intruders who have said they will fight to the death?
Please read the CCM statement again. It is a cleverly worded statement aimed at gaining support for the Kiram and turning public opinion against the govt that has been pleading with the Kirams to leave peacefully and not to provoke reprisals from the Malaysians.
Let’s stick to the facts. The Kiram led armed followers to Lahad Datu with the intent of taking Sabah or to force Malaysia to negotiate with them. Pres. Aquino told them violence is not the way to do things, please come home before any blood is spilled. The Malaysian govt. asked them to leave. They blockaded the area, gave the Kiram followers a chance to withdraw. Kirams Royal Sultanate Army dug in, despite appeals from Aquino and the Malaysian government. The result was inevitable. Malaysia had to remove them forcefully. Dumanak ang dugo, Malaysia did what any country facing an armed intrusion would do. Sino ngayon ang may kasalanan, si Aquino, ang Malaysia, o si Kiram? Tapos ang CCM gugulujin pa ang issue by shifting the topic to human rights.
Okay human rights comes into play if Malaysia caotures Kirams followers and them mistreats them. Prisoners of war na kasi yan, war between Malaysia and the Royal Sultanate Army.
One last thing, Atty Harry Roque also said that Malaysia sending jets to bomb the Sultan’s army was disproportionate response hence a violation. Let’s put that in context. There are armed invaders. Malaysia has a firefight with them. After the firefight, supporters of Kiram like Nur Misuari said thousands of fighters were making their way to Sabah, others said former MNLF fighters who setteled in Sabah were joining the fray, that they had weapons caches all over the place etc. So it is now more than just 200 armed followers “holed-up” in a village. If you were the leader of the country being being invaded, would you not strike back with overwhelming force before the enemy establishes a foothold in your territory?
#33 It is not my intention to defend Aquino or Malaysia. The facts speak for themselves. Unfortunately when one points out the facts, it cannot be helped if one begins to look like he is against the Kirams and their utak pulbura mentality.
But I am against statements like the CCM’s because they muddle the facts instead of making it clear. The conflate the issue of human rights with the case of a clear attempted invasion and the invaded country’s response.
Talagang napakasalimuot…
Una, pumayag ang Malaysia at ang Pilipinas sa time ni gloria arroyo na kilalanin si Jamalul Kiram III bilang Sultan ng Sulu.
May duda naman ngayon kung siya ang sultan.
Pangalawa, matagal nang pumayag ang Malaysia at ang Pilipinas sa SELF-DETERMINATION.
Mayroon nang referendum noong 1963. Ito ang panghahawakan ng Malaysia malamang. Takot ang Malaysia dahil napakarami ng Pilipino sa Sabah. Posible pa ang “sailing voters”.
Ang Pilipinas naman maaaring gugustuhing magkaroon ng panibagong referendum (self-determination).
Ang STANDOFF na noon ay siya pa ring STANDOFF ngayon.
Will another 50 years help???
—–
http://ojs.philippinestudies.net/index.php/ps/article/download/1004/990
Hmm…
Nagdeklara ng unilateral ceasefire ang sultanato (mula sa payo ng U.N. Sec. Gen.). Malaysia na ang bola kung kakagat…
Nawa’y maamoy na natin ang SITDOWN at tapusin na ang standoff.
Madaling mag-accuse na si Kiram ang salarin, napilitan lang si Kalbo, na natural yung response ng Malaysia. Pero yung sinasasbing rason e dahil yung “paglusob” sa Malaysia na may armas kaya okey lang pagapapatayin? Mababaw.
Mahabang usapin ito na hindi kayang ipaliwanag ng kung sinong nagmamagaling sa ilang paragraphs lang.
Akala niya tama na siya.
Madaling mag-accuse na si Kiram ang salarin, napilitan lang si Kalbo, na natural yung response ng Malaysia. Pero yung sinasasbing rason e dahil yung “paglusob” sa Malaysia na may armas kaya okey lang pagapapatayin? Mababaw.
Mahabang usapin ito na hindi kayang ipaliwanag ng kung sinong nagmamagaling sa ilang paragraphs lang.
Akala niya tama na siya.
Maraming issue dito na nakataya pero hindi naman mapahagingan man lang nitong magagaling na “analysts” na ito.
Nabanggit ko na yung ibang peripheral issues na kahit kailan hindi nagpakita ng simpatiya and mga Cojuangco-Aquino sa anumang may kinalaman sa pag-angkin ng heirs ni Kiram sa Sabah lalo ngayon na BILYUN-BILYONG PISO ang halaga ng perang nakataya ng Kamag-anak inc. sa Malaysia at marahil sa Sabah mismo.
Na ang poltical landscape sa Malaysia at Pilipinas ay nasa critical mode dahil sa paparating na eleksyon sa dalawang bansa. Ang response ng dalawa laban sa Royal Forces as dinidiktahan ng kung anong aksyon ang magiging katanggap-tanggap sa mga botante sa araw ng botohan – not necessarily a long lasting solution that will endure for ages to come – but just taking into consideration the present realities on the ground and how that solution will fit the nuances of an evolving disenchantment with the ruling party in Malaysia on one side. On the other side, Malacanang is more complacent because their present opponents are their political “friends”.
Kaya ako, I’m convinced that whoever plotted this was brilliant. The timing couldn’t have been better.
The Malaysians are merely playing to the gallery. Foreign media and other witnesses are puzzled why the planes are bombing positions that the Malaysians have secured first. And the pictures they are showing to selected mediamen are fake. It only proves that they cannot ascertain from the crowds who the Royal soldiers really are and that Kiram’s men are running rings around them, slipping through cordons and blockades because they are familiar with the territory.
So ang next move ni Kiram – unilateral ceasefire. This while newspapers report that a bigger wave of soldiers, I presume, MNLF, Abu Sayyaf, and MILF, too, are arriving in Sabah soon.
Paano na ang response ng Malaysia sa official unilateral ceasefire declaration kung totoong parating na ang additional forces? E si Noynoy will he choose to remain insignificant? What will he do? Send the whole SoWescom to Sabah and arrest/kill Kiram’s men who are on ceasefire mode?
Ewan ko kung ang principle ng self-determination na yan ang tatapos ng tuluyan sa pamamahala ng GRP sa Muslim Mindanao.
Namputa, nakipag-peacetalk pa kuno, tapos wala pala tayong magagawa kung magself determine ang MILF na humiwalay sa Pilipinas at magsarili o sumama na sa Malaysian Federation, ang isponsor nila kapayapaan, isponsor din sa digmaan.
Putang ina kung alam lang natin na diyan din mauuwi ang lahat e bakit pa magpeace accord? Giyera na lang uli! Ubusin na sa giyera yan. Nagbago na isip ko. Kontra na ako sa Peace Accord na yan. Maingay kong tututulan yan.
Ano’ng pagkakaiba niyan kay Gloria? At least kay Gloria alam nating babawiin din sa oras na nauwi na sa eleksyon ang pamamalakad sa ARMM. Mawawala din sa kamay nila at maaagaw muli ng mga datihang politiko. E itong tinutumbok ni Ninoy kung pakikinggan mo ang mga deklarasyon ng mga tagapagtanggol niya, ipamimigay na talaga.
Self-determination ninyo mukha ninyo. Letse, ipamimigay din lang pala.
“Self-determination” for an emerging class of puppet (Islamic) rulers beholden to the West–yan ang disenyo sa “a-peace-ment” talks na ini-sponsor ng Malaysia/US para sa tuta nilang MILF.
Hindi nila pahihintulutang maging matatag na repulika ang Pilipinas.
With the loyal service of their other set of puppets in “Imperial Manila,” they will ensure that — with Mindanao (and, of course, Sabah) out of the way — the Phils. will be reduced to just a raw material (and human material) economy in perpetuity.
Kaya di kataka-taka na untouchable ang MILF kahit na ano pang lagim ang ikalat nila.
Sa Al Barka carnage noong 2011, paano dinipensahan ni Deles ang kanyang beloved “freedom fighters”? May napanagot ba? Sundalo pa natin ang na-court martial bago mag-retiro si Oban.
Kaya isama na yang sina Deles et al. sa pag-deport kay AbNoy sa Malaysia.
eh, ano ito?
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/focus/03/06/13/unearthed-court-documents-show-kirams-rights-over-sabah
FLASH:FLASH:FLASH:21 Pinoy peacekeepers sa Syria, hostage ng mga rebelde.
Paano yan mga magaling na analysts, okey lang na patayin na rin? Pumunta sila sa Syria na may armas. Bakit hindi natin pabayan ang Syria sa self-determination nila doon? Hahaha.
Pagka Pilipino, lost cause, surrender na lang. Kung ayaw nyo mamatay kayo. Tapos dito sa Syria pakamatay para sa ibang bansa?
#43
Kataka-taka nga kung ba’t di prominenteng naipaskil ang balitang yan sa nabanggit na news website.
tongue, you made my morning…hahaha! Kung ganyan ang pagpapaliwanag mo, getz ka agad ng libo-libong readers ng blog ni Ellen.
Magno, thanks sa link.
LCsaio, malaking balita dito yan, ewan ko sa Pinas. At yung comment ni tongue #44, yan ang topic ng usapan kagabi sa isang tipon ng kapinuyan.
#40
May karapatan mag secede. Pero tungkulin at karapatan din ng pamahalaan ng labanan ang secessionist kung mag alsa sila ng armas. So bakbakan iyan kung di makukuha sa usapan. Bakbakan yan hanggang may matalo o di kaya magkaroon ng stalemate o di kaya mapagod na ang parehong panig. When the losses for both sides are greater than the goal and gains they hope to achieve. Diyan nag uumpisa ang tinatawag na peace talks. Parehong parte ay magbibigay para lang matigil na ang bakbakan. Kaya yun MILF at bago nila yun MNLF ay isinuko ang secessionist goal nila for autonomy at ang gobyerno ay pumayag din naman. Hindi tatagal ang buhay kung lahat ng tao ay utak pulbura
Ang estado ng Texas matagal na ang proposal ng self-determination, sabi ng natira sa WH, including ang current occupant na Obama na no way, neknek nyo. Kung payagan, walang katwiran para tanggihan ang lahat ang gustong magkarun ng self-determination e dumadami.
Ako lang ba ang nakakapansin na dami ng namatay sa Sabah pero walang nababalitang categorical/sariling stand si Pnoy kung ang Sabah ay sa Pinas o pinamigay na nya ng tuluyan sa Malaysia?
I understand if he does not recognize Kiram as the legitimate sultan, but a piece of his country hindi na ba? If he follows his mom’s “self-determination” stance, why not say so? Mas mabuti ang naiintindihan ng pinoy ang kanyang tayo.
Ang GB nag ‘let’, sya yata ‘let go’.
Mahirap intindihin kung ang dila ang gagamiting pambasa…
Well, for now, Sabah belongs to the Federal State of Malaysia and the Malaysians prove that they can defend their territory if threatened by Force…Perhaps in the Future when the Federation is turning into a Banana State, an attempt to take away some of its territory maybe attempted again by any means…or just buy the way the Americans bought Alaska and I think they also bought Louisana…for all we knew maybe they secretly bought Cuba and Phl, Puerto Rico and Guam and just pretended to have colonized them by sinking the Spanish Fleet…And took California by Proxy…well, there are ways to take somebody real estate…many Filipinos are experts on these…HL, 6000 hectares was not bought by the Cojuangcos with cash? or the Villars did not really buy up all their real estate with Clean Money, did they? well, guys, the Kirams forefathers not very smart for giving a wasteland for very good sum in the old days, not knowing how will it end up for his heirs…and too many lives been lost for a lost case…
Bakit humingi ng tulong ang Sultan kay Cong Dadong noong 60s kung proprietary rights lang naman ang habol?
Because this is required to litigate before the ICJ.
icj-cij.org/documents/index.php?p1=4&p2=2&p3=0#CHAPTER_II
Lagyan ng tatlong w
Can the Philippines drop the Sabah claim?
No.
I saw the deed conveying the rights to the Government of the Republic of the Philippines. There is a proviso there that says to the effect that if the Philippines drops the claim, the assignment of rights is automatically terminated, and the rights revert back to the Sultanate.
In other words, for the Philippines to say that it is dropping the claim, is tantamount to saying that it has resigned as the representative.
The transfer/assignment of rights, therefore, was limited; limited to pursuing the claim, not dropping it. The Philippines was not given authority to drop for and in behalf of the Sultanate. Since the Philippines, by action, or words, or both of the gunslinging Nintendo player, has dropped the claim, then the right has reverted back to the Sultanate. It is for that reason that the Sultanate has gone solo.
The method, is of course another matter – violence as against negotiation.
Negotiation would have been stronger if it were state-to-state. That is where the government could have come in, as pater familias of its citizens. Walang pinagkaiba yan sa negotiating for the reparations for the Comfort Lolas of Harry Roque.
Ay salamat, nadyan ka na atty sax. Thanks for the layman’s style and language used interpreting the text of NO dropping.
“Negotiation would have been stronger if it were state-to-state.”
Sabi ni Noy surender na lang daw e, mas madali. 🙂
Ayaw nga mga taga Sabah magpailalim sa Pilipinas at lalung lalo na kay Kiram. At nasaan yun mga daan-daang libong Tausag na naninirahan sa Sabah, bakit di nila tinutulungan si Kiram? Kung ayaw ng mga native Sabahan tumulong kay Kiram siguro naman yun mga Tausog na nasa Sabah ay tutulong, bakit kailangan pa mag-import ng Tausog mula sa Pilipinas?
Ang sinulat ni Marie Yuviengco sa Interaksyon http://www.interaksyon.com/article/56578/marie-yuvienco–lost-in-transmission
“One thing needs to be clarified: the documents evidencing the Philippines’ rights to Sabah are, unfortunately, only the bases for a claim. It is not up to us to judge whether we have legal title or not; that is for the proper international forum to adjudicate, and ultimately, for the people of Sabah themselves to decide.”
“It’s safe to say most Filipinos care nothing about Sabah and I suspect the opposite to be true also. It’s easy for hawks to toot the bugle calling for the President to claim what is theirs (I don’t pretend to have a claim to it) but unless they’re willing to don fatigues and enter the arena of war and pledge their sons and daughters to what potentially is a long and useless campaign, I won’t be persuaded.”
The line forms on the right. Bring your own weapon of choice.
Yung legal basis for the claim daw, aaralin pa.
Dumaan na yan kay Jovito Salonga, Diosdado Macapagal, Emmanuel Pelaez, Ambrosio Padilla, and Turing Tolentino, among others.
This is a virtual who’s who in the legal profession. The first three topped the bar in their respective years. Padilla was 3rd, and Turing is Turing.
So now, Leila in perpetual dilemma will review the issue these gentlemen already reviewed? The woman who is unfit to untie the shoelaces of the above will review the work of Salonga et al?
May katulong daw. Paquito who?
“So now, Leila in perpetual dilemma will review the issue these gentlemen already reviewed? The woman who is unfit to untie the shoelaces of the above will review the work of Salonga et al?”
Grabe, the woman who is unfit to untie the shoelaces of Salonga, Tolentino, et al.! Super like ko, hahaha….!!!
Si Paquito Diaz yata yun, 🙂
Thanks, SnV.
Of course, wala akong documents…news items lang…
Nagkasundo ang Malaysia at Philippines noong time ni gloria na kilalanin si Jamalul Kiram III bilang Sultan of Sulu. Ngayon marahil na-realize ng Malaysia ang kanilang pagkakamali.
Ukol naman sa pagtalaga sa Pilipinas upang kumatawan sa ICJ…
Parang nawala sa gobiyerno ang power noong 1980s.
At ito pa…
Parang wala namang nagsasabing naibalik muli sa gobiyerno ng Pilipinas in writing ang pagtatalaga ng rights. Unless nawala na naman ito in transit to PNoy (lost in transition).
‘Yung article ni Raissa Robles ay halaw sa South China Morning Post, 2002.
Lupa pinag aawayan,nakakahiya naman.
Ang pagkakaroon ng lider na traydor — YUN ang nakakahiya.
#57
Ipapakita ba ng mga opisyal na Suluk (Tausug) at Badjao associations doon sa Malaysian gov’t at Malaysian media na sumusuporta sila sa adhikain ng RSA? Siyempre hindi. Natural na kukundinahin nila yun at baka makatikim sila.
Kaya may reinforcements mula sa Sulu ay dahil di mandirigma ang mga matagal nang naninirahan doon sa Sabah.
#45
Kawawang mga Pinoy peacekeepers. Ginawa pang kasangkapan upang i-parrot ang propaganda ng Free(?) Syrian Army.
Hindi yan realization. Tawag diyan karma.
200 plus men, in a “foreign” (foreign nga ba?) land hindi mahuli o matunton ng locals? Imposible? Hindi.
Kasi nga familiar sila sa terrain, mga Sabahan mismo nagsasabi na sinuportahan ng Malaysia ang rebelyon sa Mindanao, kasama na ang training, at weapons supply, sa Sabah mismo kaya hindi ako nagtataka na kabisado nila Kiram yung Lahad Datu. Nung tumakas si Misuari noong hinahanting ng PNP/AFP saan nagtago? Kundi pa siya ipinagkanulo ng mga financier niya sa Malaysia hindi pa siya mahuhuli.
Kaso nung panahong iyun si Salamat Hashim na ang bata ng Malaysia kaya na-sacrifice na si Misuari.
#59 Tungkol kqy Turing Tolentino. Eto ayon sa timeline ni MLQ3.
“June 25, 1980
At the ASEAN Foreign Ministers Conference in Kuala Lumpur, MP Arturo M. Tolentino declared that the Philippine claim to Sabah “…is closed. We are not raising it anymore.”[138]
FYI lang poh.
# 70
Uy selective quotations pala ang gusto.
Turing was one of the authors of the resolution that declared Sabah as owned by the Sultanate.
On the above quote, Tolentino was speaking for his boss, Macoy.
But on his own,
1980 pa yan. Assuming totoo yan. Superseded na ng 1987 Constitution. RA 5446/9522 at EO ni Putot. The most recent decision by the Supreme court in 2011.
Hanggang ngayon ba nilalabas pa yang nakakahiyang propaganda na ibinasura na ng SC?
Eto ang nadampot ng Bing:
http://www.manilatimes.net/index.php/opinion/columnist1/42953-lacierda-lying-on-sabah-issue-ignorant-or-plain-dimwitted?tmpl=component&layout=default&page=
Pasensya na Edwin, MLQ3, hehehe.
On the self-determination issue, which Tongue is his post in the other thread says was a sampling of a mere 4,000:
Doesn’t that argument apply to the MILF as well? Hindi ba’t nag-referendum na? Hindi ba’t taon taon, including this coming May, the Muslim Filipinos participate in the elections, as constituents of the regular congressional districts?
Gusto na namang ulitin ng MILF ang referendum? And for that shamework Marvic Leonen gets appoint to the Supreme Court?
The President belittles the historic claim of the Sultan of Sulu.
Isn’t historic right also the basis for the MNLF and MILF’s claim to Palawan? Whose historic title? Not theirs, but the Sultan of Sulu’s.
So who do the MNLF/MILF represent, when they do not represent the Sultan of Sulu? Certainly not their Muslim brothers, who have voted in regular congressional elections. In fact, they have voted with their feet. There are more Muslims in Taguig than Datu Piang.
We want to give up Sabah, which has solid legal basis. Nagbabayad nga di ba? We, however, choose to fight for the Spratlys, which is based on the peke discovery of Tomas Cloma.
Cloma alleges to have discovered the Spratlys in 1956. Gungong. Pinag-awayan na yan ng France and Japan as far back as 1939. Ikaw lang ang hindi nakakaalam.
globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/spratly-conflict.htm
Panahon ni Macoy yan. Panahon din ni Macoy noong nag-world news about the Tasaday. It was later proven to be an elaborate hoax.
So you fight a world power (China) for a peke claim, but capitulate to Malaysia, and relinquish a valid claim?
So which genius is advising the nintendo player? An xbox player? Or Leila in perpetual dilemma?
A Rene-Ipil in the Raissa Robles blog posted a digital copy of the original Arabic contract between Overbeck and the Sultan.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Deed_of_Sabah_Lease_of_1878.jpg
Ano Magno? What does your Arabic reading say? Benta ba? O upa?
Nabasa ko na sa Sandakan.com yung translation ni Prof. Harold Conklin ng Yale. Meron din palang photocopy ng actual Lease
#71
Tatlong beses pala nagpalit ng isip si Tolentino. So multiple choice pala.
Ganun pa man din, very educational ang mga points mo. Maganda para makadagdag sa historical knowledge. Pero ang issue diyan ay kung ano ang gusto ng Sabahan. Sila ang masusunod. Sana magpakita ka ng ebidensiya na ang mga Sabahan ay gustong humiwalay sa Malaysia at magpailalim sa Pilipinas. Iyan kasi ang importante, hindi yun titulo ni Kiram kasi panahon na ng demokrasya ngayon!
Thanks, SnV for #55.
Thank you mga lahat na ka-blog, ang dami kong natutunan sa inyong mga argumento. Wish ko lang ay kasama kong umaatend ng klase dito si Noynoy baka hindi na nya kailangan pa si Leila.
# 79
Ask the Rasuls for a copy. Senator Santanina’s husband Abraham was in the Ruma Bichara of the Sultan in the 60s.
# 72
Nakakahiya naman si Lacierda. Mental retardation by osmosis.
Balik tayo uli sa Sabah issue at sa ilang komento…
#35
Ang “self-determination” na tinutukoy ay ang “Sabah ay dapat pag-aari ng mga Sabahans”. Kesyo may referendum na ba o wala ay hindi nag-dedefine sa mga katagang “self-determination”.
‘Yan ang “self-determination”. At ang Pilipinas ay nagpasakop na sa doktrinang ito gaya nang naka-highlight sa quotation sa #35 na akda ni Fr. Parpan.
Nguni’t sa mata ng Pilipinas [at ng Indonesia…at siyempre ni Dr. Kitingan (same link as above and cited by Tongue in #20 in the next thread)] ay hindi kinikilala ang nangyari noong 1963 kahit pa parang pinaniwalaan ito ng ICJ noong 2001 ayon na rin dito:
So, sa paglilinaw…
Malamang na panghahawakan ng Malaysia ang nangyari noong 1963 kahit hindi ito tunay na referendum…U.N. survey lang pala na ginawa sa maigsing panahon.
Ang Pilipinas naman ay maaaring mag-demand ng tunay na botohan…”fresh options” na naaayon sa Manila Accord.
Nakinikinita na ito ni Fr. Parpan noong isinulat niya ang “The Philippine Claim on North Borneo: Another Look” noong 1988.
Karugtong ng aking komento sa #62…
Mga paglilinaw pa din…
1. Walang nangyaring Sabah referendum noong 1963.
http://www.cpiasia.net/english/dmdocuments/The%20Kitingan%20Case,%20The%20Borneo%20States,%20and%20The%20Malaysian%20Constitution.pdf
2. Ito pa (Salamat @saxnviolins.)…
http://borneoherald.blogspot.com/2013/03/there-was-no-sabah-referendum.html
3. Survey lang ang nangyari noong 1963 para magkaroon ng “self-determination” (Salamat @Rene-Ipil.).
http://borneoherald.blogspot.com/2013/03/malaysia-you-failed-us.html
4. Ito ang pahapyaw na pamamaraan ng survey na inilahad ni Dr. Kitingan (Salamat @TonGuE-tWisTeD).
http://borneoherald.blogspot.com/2013/03/pm-must-guarantee-safety-and-restore.html
5. At ito pa…survey lang siya na irregular at naisakatuparan sa maigsing panahon…
Sabah history by Rev. Fr. Pacifico A. Ortiz written in 1963…with my emphasis and italicized annotations:
http://ojs.philippinestudies.net/index.php/ps/article/download/2653/5296
Manila Accord
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=284475975015927&set=o.282050685146871&type=1&theater
#84
“The resolution also stated that should the government fail to act on the claim on a given period, its authority will be revoked and the Sulu sultanate may retain its sovereign rights to prosecute its claim on Sabah.”
Even so, (my layman’s understanding is) the Philippines can still pursue its sovereign claim on the basis of RA 5446, which is still in effect.
@ 87 but what basis will the Phl anchor its claim on Sabah? that is is nearest to the Phl than mainland Malaysia? This Matter been studied by the “heads” af the Dept of Foreign Affairs and every administration after the Marcos bay of Pigs was exposed (if it was not, the will end up being roasted then)figured out that there is no chance to successfully pursue the claim in any venue…Can not even claim whole of the country as its sovereign and it is starting to parcel it little by little to every tribe and group…Pretty soon Sultan Kiram or his Heir will be given the whole of Sulu to pacify the sultanate , maybe by the next Prez whoever that maybe…and soon there will be only the city State of Maynilad
^ By the authority of the Filipino people, based in principle on the historic claim of the Sultanate of Sulu. My point is, even if the authority had been revoked or had lapsed, the fact that North Borneo was made legally part of Phil territory as per RA 5446 (which has not been repealed) already supersedes the grant that was given to Macapagal in 1962 as it (RA 5446) is still the law of the land.
#88
“Can not even claim whole of the country as its sovereign and it is starting to parcel it little by little to every tribe and group”
The inherent weakness and failure to inoculate our domestic (military and economic) policy from foreign (Western) intervention, leading to the dismemberment of our Republic, by every capitulationist Yellow admin post-Marcos, cannot serve as the standard by which the fate of our nation must be consigned.