Malaya’s update: Missing jet not shot down
Inquirer: PAF continues to search for missing plane
Last Nov. 26, it was reported that one of two Philippine Air Force S2-11 aircraft sent to the contested Spratly Islands in South China Sea to search for 26 Filipino crewmen whose fishing vessel capsized a few days earlier in stormy weather went missing.
On board the aircraft were lead pilot Captain Gavino Mercado Jr. (PMA Class ’99) and co-pilot Captain Bonifacio Soriano III (PMA Class 2000)
A month and 11 days has passed. The pilots remain “missing.” There has also been no official report on the results of the investigation conducted by PAF.
I got a letter from colleagues of Captains Mercado and Soriano who are concerned and infuriated by the Air Force’s hasty declaration of the two young pilots’ status as “Missing Crew” without a satisfactory investigation of the incident.
They raised some valid points:
Fact No. 1: The Search & Reconnaissance Mission of PAF Aircraft was a “buddy” flight or a two-aircraft flight.
Getting lost on flight with the eventual crashing on bodies of water without the knowledge of the other aircraft is highly unbelievable for reason that each aircraft is equipped with a dual communication system to ensure smooth communication exchange even during communication failure by simply using the alternate line when the main communication line fails. Well except, of course, if the PAF violated flight safety requirements again because of corruption.
But for purposes of discussion, let us just presume that the distressed aircraft was indeed experiencing complete electrical failure leading to total communication failure. Getting lost is still a very remote case because prior to take off these pilots definitely have assigned one rendezvous point at certain period of time and altitude. So in this case, it is more likely that the Pagasa Runway is the emergency landing point if going back to station is no longer practicable fuel-wise.
On the other hand, getting lost at the designated rendezvous point is still improbable because each aircraft is equipped with the latest Global Positioning System (GPS) (both aircraft electrical system or battery operated) whose flight routes including emergency landing areas are already plotted on the GPS beforehand. In other words, there’s no other way to instantly get lost without the knowledge of the lead aircraft except for “suicide crash landing.”
Fact No. 2: No Fly below 1,000 ft policy over foreign claimed islets (Vietnam and China in particular).
Remember that the purpose of that mission was to conduct “Search & Reconnaissance” mission on the possible survivors of the missing fishing vessel in the vicinity of the Kalayaan Group of Islands. Since visibility was poor due to bad weather outlook, flight level was expectedly lower than 1000 ft altitude in order to spot possible survivors swimming over bodies of water.
And as claimed by the co-pilot in the press release, they were indeed flying low and had just pulled up to 3,000 ft altitude when the other aircraft “instantly” lost contact with them.
Foreign claimants on this hotly contested group of islands have served standing notice to the Philippine government that any Philippine aircraft flying below 1,000 ft altitude over their claimed territory will be met with heavy anti-aircraft fire.
The S2-11 aircraft had been converted from trainer plane to attack aircraft when F5 fighter jet were decommissioned by the PAF several years ago. So logically, seeing two combat-colored, fast-flying jet aircraft loitering over enemy claimed territories at a very low altitude is tantamount to territorial aggression, thus necessitating utilization or deployment of anti-aircraft weaponry for defense purposes.
So there is high probability that the lost aircraft might have been shot down by enemy fire while on flight causing them to immediately lose contact with the lead aircraft.
Fact No. 3: Lead pilot was in a “state of shock.”
The lead pilot will experience a state of shock only when subconsciously he knows that the lost aircraft suffered a fatal accident and not just experiencing ordinary aircraft discrepancy like radio communication failure.
The only justifiable circumstances that can cause him to feel “state of shock”, if enemy fire is to be disregarded, is if they as a flight were flying low-level aerobatics which led to that fatal accident.
Fact No. 4: Doubtful claim of found plane wreckage.
If the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) based in Palawan has truly found the missing aircraft with no sign of forced abandonment from the pilots, meaning the pilots didn’t emergency eject, then by all means the PCG will be obliged to provide proof through video footages or pictures on the found aircraft in nationwide television in order to prevent false insinuations that will aggravate the situation.
A mere “No Forced Abandonment” description of the found aircraft without hard facts is rubbing salt on injured emotions because the grieving families will now believe that their loved ones are still struggling for their lives against ocean coldness, sun heat, dehydration, hunger, and worst, shark attacks. In other words, such a claim by PCG is injurious rather than comforting.
Fact No. 5: Cover up theory.
There are two possible cover up theories that may arise behind this tragedy. One is pilot’s error when they were “fun flying” through low-level aerobatics or “bashing maneuvers.”
Second is they were shot down by enemy fire and the government in general or the AFP in particular is covering it up to avoid political noise against their ineptitude. Ineptitude in a sense that the corrupt military leaders knew all along that possessing highly sophisticated fighter aircraft to protect national interest over the Spratlys group of Islands is actually impractical because the most the country can do over a perceived foreign invasion is political/public protest.
So if the missing S2-11 aircraft was indeed shot down by enemy fire, then it goes to show that having state-of-the-art fighter jets does not guarantee effective defense of our territorial claims because we cannot just retaliate militarily. The most this country can do is public protest against the perpetrator country.
It should render irrelevant all the efforts of corrupt military leaders over the years in lobbying for the immediate procurement of highly sophisticated jet aircraft.
The letter-writers salute Captains Mercado and Soriano. They said, whatever the conclusion of the Air Force inquiry would be, “You will remain our hero. ‘Till we meet again.”
Related story:Families of pilots not losing hope
I personally believe in the theory that the plane was shot down by the enemy in Spratlys. Since this GMA government and current AFP leadership have the habit of covering up misdeeds and embarrassing incidents, it’s very possible that the plane was shot down either by the Chinese or Vietnamese, the two countries where troops are openly stationed on the islands being claimed by many. At the end of the day, anong magagawa ng RP kung sakali man pinabagsak ng kaaway ang eroplano? Will RP declare war? Kung iyon ngang ginawa ng mga Kano sa Sulu, kahit diplomatic protest wala despite demand by the residents there. Hindi lang takot si GMA kundi mas importante sa kanya ang manatili sa kapangyarihan.
This is not the time for her to fight with foreign countries. Bagsak na nga ang rating niya at tinawag na Number One Corrupt President, aawayin pa ba niya ang mga dayuhan? It pains me to see the sad state of our nation. Even when it comes to our rights as a nation or protecting our sovereignty, kawawa talaga tayo. What we need is CHANGE (copy from Obama’s slogan). We must change the fake leadership now. Let me also copy from Marcos’ popular slogan when he first ran for President: This Nation Will Be Great Again.
Re: “So …. because we cannot just retaliate militarily. The most this country can do is public protest against the perpetrator country.”
PAF fighter pilots need to log in more flying hours but can’t be done if you have less than 2 or 3 complete modern squadrons.
Don’t believe or agree that our pilots can’t retaliate at all!
In the given scenario, either they were caught by surprise or assessment of threat at the time was wrong.
Maybe someone pirated the aircraft and is already up for sale somewhere. These things happen. The missing theory must be explained, no way it can not be explained — someone is tryig to hide the truth here, lest we start to believe that the aircraft was pirated and is being sold somewhere.
Easy now — we ain’t sure that the fellow was shot down by “enemy” fire. I’m open to all theories — even the “aircraft pirating” theory.
If the aircraft was shot down, our pilots must retaliate. No two ways to go about it. Go back and shoot it out. But make sure pilot is good at dog fight, otherwise, don’t even bother.
The press must get on to this — matter of fuc_èé_çèéèàè(çàing national pride.
At this point, what’s more important is to know where those pilots are…if they are safe and alive. Sayang na naman ang dalawang mga batang PMAers. We’re losing lots of young PMA graduates to incidents such as that. And how many more young PMAers were killed by the government’s enemies, NPA and Muslim rebels? Filipinos fighting against fellow Filipinos. Worse, foreign troops are now actively participating in combat operations and continue to meddle in the affairs of our nation. It doesn’t make sense. CHANGE is what we need…and NOW !
But how could our pilots retaliate when they are already shot down. How could they retaliate even if they are alive in the sea? What we need is to send a squadron of fighter jets over there and conduct an honest-to-goodness search operation. Kung nangyari ito sa mga Kano, I’m sure they would have sent a couple of battle ships, fighter jets and Marines over there. They might even attack first before even finding out whether or not their plane was shot down. That would have given them the chance to claim the Spratlys by force. Hindi lang mga Kano ang gagawa niyan. Subukan nilang ipabagsak ang isang eroplano ng China. China would have reacted as strongly.
Re: Cover up theory
I support this theory. PAF warplane was shot down over the disputed Spratlys group of Islands most likely by the China. The Chinese also sunk Vietnamese gunboat in the Spratlys. Gloria Arroyo cannot afford to create an international incident. It may embarrass the new economic giant China and definitely lost her source of huge kickbacks. She forged anomalous deals with China like the NBN+CyberEd-ZTE scams. Conclusion: Gloria Arroyo’s greed of money and power is more important than protecting the interest of the country and the Filipino people.
Yes Diego, the number one suspect is China. If it’s China, what’s America doing? Isn’t America obligated to come to RP’s rescue? That could justify America’s increase of US troops in RP. Oh they would love it…
Brownberry,
Retaliation could be effected by other pilots. Easy to do a sortie and drop a bomb.
Public don’t always know what goes on behind the scenes coz reports don’t get to the press but a few years ago, a navy ship commanded by one who eventually became FOIC rained fire on a vessel encroaching on our vessels below the draught line cutting, sinking the illegal vessel outright. Some of the crew on said illegal vessel got killed but it didn’t get to public knowledge.
Of course, takes a lot of bravoura and courage to do something like that.
No need to send a squadron — haven’t got the number to do that, besides that will be courting more problems. Two aircraft on simulated sortie could retaliate.
Re shot down scenario: We must look at the coordinates and check all elements – range and all; how did the buddy plane get back? An S211 cannot realistically go beyond Ayungin Island or Asin Island coordinates (part of Philippine Spratleys) and get back because of its limited range and ceiling, hence looks hard to believe aircraft was shot on “enemy territory.” That is if we consider that buddy aircraft was able to get back.
Hence, I don’t know if shot down scenario is believable.
Of course, we haven’t got all the elements the range factor of the S2 aircraft is a good basis.
Could be too that pilots got lost or whatever and fell to see because they ran out of fuel.
In any case, important to get to the bottom of the story — PAF or AFP can’t just sidestep this thing and say “Oh well, they are missing.”
Brownberry, it’s conspiracy theory? The U.S. shot down PAF plane and blame China for the incident. The White House will justify overt presence of U.S. troops and bases in Philippines to counter China’s economic and military might in the Asia –Pacific region. Everything is possible to protect Uncle Sam’s interests in the region. The South China Sea busy sea route is vital to U.S. allies-Japan, South Korea and Taiwan.
You sound like you got lots of military background. Are you a military pilot? Sorry to say…we’re weakling when it comes to armed confrontation. Even today, the Sabah issue has not yet been resolved. Yet, Sabah definitely belongs to RP.
Thanks Diego. I was asking AdeBrux if he has military background. Your conspiracy theory is shared by me. The US is good as this kind of trick. She lets two parties fight then she enters the picture.
Oh by the way, my note above “Don’t believe or agree that our pilots can’t retaliate at all!” I meant that not for the supposedly “shot down” pilots but by other pilots on stand by or scheduled to go on sortie and who can do some “fun-flying exercise”.
Believe me, if there is a strong belief that the aircraft was shot down by “unfriendly fire”, there will be some gung ho pilots in the PAF midst who will retaliate with or without authorization from higher command if only to avenge their comrades. Part of fighter pilot psyche. Unless of course, all aircraft are officially grounded to prevent sorties.
Yes AdeBrux, I forgot the camaraderie of the soldiers. They would retaliate with or without authorization. Diego, your conspiracy theory reminds me of what Hilter did when he ordered a German plan disguised as an enemy plane to bomb and attack a German territory. That incident ignited the patriotic hearts of the Germans and thereby justified Hitler’s plan to rule the world.
Ellen,
Re: “So there is high probability that the lost aircraft might have been shot down by enemy fire while on flight causing them to immediately lose contact with the lead aircraft.”
Am not totally discounting that probability. Only way to know if for buddy aircraft or lead aircraft to come clean. Can’t trust Esperon or Tolentino to come clean.
If aircraft was shot down, he would have known, seen, heard, etc. no way, he couldn’t have not known. In this case, the leader pilot must come clean — only way to ascertain. Of course, will require lots of courage to do that.
We’re talking about conspiracy here. Huwag naman may magsabing mga mestisong Pinoy soldiers ang nag-order na isara ang hospital sa Sulu para magalit ang mga tao doon at para paalisin ang mga Kano. It could have been mestizo and American looking guys wearing US military uniforms who ordered the closure of that Sulu Hospital to anger the residents.
I am just wondering…di ba may homing device ang S-211? Di ba ang tawag dyan ay flying coffin at widow maker in the past?
I am sad to know that the missing pilots are PMA graduates. If they are dead, then there goes our money down the drain again….poor country.
Our country has a lot of air but no force to speak of.
here’s a post from http://www.aviation-safety-security.com/current-newsletter/index.
” The jet was one of 5 S-211s in the Air Force fleet. PAF officials initially suspected that pilots may have experienced vertigo midflight, disorienting them while maneuvering the plane.”
If they got disoriented, then somebody must have noticed them. What are radars for?
But why not acquire brand new trainer jets and war jets?
here’s a news dispatch from gmanews.tv
“The Philippines does not suspect that hostile fire downed a military jet that disappeared during a rescue mission in the South China Sea’s disputed Spratly Islands two months ago, Air Force officials said Sunday.”
The statement was attributed to new Air Force chief Gen. Cadungog.
Sir, if you don’t suspect? why not suspect now?
You have to think all the possible angles. Is it not?
the reason they are not thinking the S-211 was downed by hostile fire is because…”Cadungog said the jet could not have been shot down by hostile fire because the PAF jets are the only aircraft flying in that area, which is under Philippine control. He did not elaborate, and it was difficult to confirm his statement because several countries have overlapping claims in the vast region.”
Sir, just asking, di ba pwede namang tirahin ng anti-aircraft missile coming from an island or a foreign navy ship ang eroplano natin?
sir, pwede bang imbestigahan nyo na lang ng maigi? pwede?
I don’t think US can afford to fight China..takot din ang US sa China..sa ngayon nga lang flooded and US market sa mga Made in China. A few years back marami kang makikita na Made in the Philippines..ngayon madalang pa sa luha ni Goria..kahit na nga seguro sa Phil. wala ka na ring makitang Made in the Phil..The sleeping China ia much awake now..We have been crying for a need of change..when?
..re Sabah bata ba ako nababasa ko na sa diario (kahit noong bata ba si Sabel nakaabot ang Diario sa Antique) hanggang ngayon hindi pa ba naresolve ang issue na yon. Noong nagsimula ako ng High School nabasa ko yong “secret military being trained in Corregidor..hanggang ngayon ba ay wala din nangyari?..Indeed we need change..Seguro pag si Obama ang US presidente mag iiba din ang takbo ng buhay sa atin..hindi ba?
Poor PAF, sad to say that our existing tora-tora are poorly equipped by modern state of the art technologies and no maintenance at all, kasi po ibinulsa na yong budget para dito.
Mostly of our PAF aircrafts eh nagbabagsakan, ang reasons eh old and obsolete, recommended for junk due to uneconomical to repair or refurbish pa.
Buti pa ang Bangladesh mayroon silang Modern fighter jets from UK and USA. Sa Pinas regalo ni Uncle Sam gamit pa noong WWII, mga antigo na at dapat idisplay na yon sa archives ng enchanted kingdom.
O kaya e pabidding sa magbabakal ng di na makadisgrasya ng pobreng Pilito.
..correction.. flooded ang US market..”
BB: Yes Diego, the number one suspect is China. If it’s China, what’s America doing? Isn’t America obligated to come to RP’s rescue? That could justify America’s increase of US troops in RP. Oh they would love it…
*****
Iniisip palang kung ano ang gagawin, kinikilabutan na ako. Anong ilalaban ng AFP under the leadership of the most corrupt president and her general? For all you know, these crooks must be now on the enemies’ side. Lahi yata ng traydor iyan!
Taragis, anong ilalaban ng mga ungas sa mga intsik? Maski nga US medyo nanginginig ang tumbong ngayon with China’s military build-up kaya nga panay ang gatong sa Japan to rearm. Heaven forbid!
I agree with Anna, all angles have to be explored, including that of stealing the jet and selling it to the black market.
Or for some revolutionary purpose.
I think I was the first to float it here that the AFP may have been entertaining that idea (or hiding the fact!) when it was reported that Esperon left for Malaysia immediately after the Manila Pen drama.
What the fuck was Esperon doing there when it is believed both by ordinary folks and high officials that there are remnants of troops sympathetic to the cause of Trillanes and co. just waiting in the wings to strike anytime soon? They just confirmed it the other day, didn’t they? It was so important at that time, he had to personally go to Malaysia.
I had this eerie inkling that the Ass wanted to verify for himself that the Magdalos did not have the air resources that could possibly turn the tide in the event of a drawn-out encounter. Remember, Cory almost lost it because of ONE Tora-tora!
Anna’s posit on range factor supports this theory. It would have been easy to land such a small plane in any of the “minor airports”, from Sandoval in Taytay, or El Nido, Coron, Busuanga, all found around Palawan, or Mapun and Bongao in Sulu Sea, most of which, by the way, have soil runways, unmanned nipa hut “terminals”, which service chartered planes for resort clients and scuba-diving groups. The pilots could have hidden the plane there for a while and refueled en route to Borneo or any of the Malaysian states without being noticed or spotted by radars.
To me, that urgent trip of Esperon to Malaysia, at the height of another “coup”, had no better explanation. Was this the also the reason PAF Chief Tolentino had folded his wings earlier than expected? They better start explaining this.
May fighter jet na nga ba ang Magdalo?
Tongue-Twiste, why Esperon and other high ranking AFP officials were absent at the height of the Manila Pen incident is still a puzzle. Some suspected a set up or conspiracy angle. Did Esperon and company knew that there would be a Manila Pen incident? And that he allowed it to happen and waited for the outcome? Strange…but maybe true. Nowadays, one cannot distinguish between real and fake. For as ordinary Filipinos, all we should do is watch out and take care of ourselves. We might wake up finding out that we have been taken for a ride. Ayaw man natin isipin at paghinalaan ang mga pangyayari, kung minsan talaga magugulat na lang tayo sa hindi inaasahan.
May fighter jet ba ang Madalo? Hindi lang isa…baka buong PAF. Please take note that there’s now a new PAF Chief who used to be GMA’s personal pilot. Para sigurado, inilagay na lang ni GMA ang isang tapat sa kanya para ang buong PAF ay hawak niya. At sino pa ang tatapat sa isang dati niyang personal na piloto. Hawak ng piloto ang buhay ni GMA.
Brownberry,
That reminds me of Imelda’s personal pilot. The name escapes me now but it was American-sounding. I used to frequent the JUSMAG house of a high-school classmate in Fort Boni, just to catch a glimpse of this Colonel’s very pretty daughter from St. Scho who lives just across the street.
The pilot’s whole family was with the Marcoses in the C-130 flight to Paoay, er, Hawaii.
If what you say about the Magdalo having more than one fighter jet is true, the new PAF chief’s family better start packing their bags now. The earlier the better.
I wonder where the American pilot will take the Arroyos when they tell him, “Take us to Mexico, Pampanga”?
Ho-hummmm. Wala naman jets na lumipad for the search and rescue. thats only for the papers. The ‘lost’ craft is only a story so the airforce can drop it from someone’s accountability. Any downed aircraft will send out beeps for homing devices. Besides, the partner craft GPR could pinpoint where the other one dived. Remember the Lamitan siege? There were no operational planes to cut off the ASG slow craft from Palawan. There’s normally search patterns to use. And small jets are not ideal for SAR with limited flying time sa Spratly’s pa naman. 4 jets scrambled from Florida Blanca and hovered over Lipa for 15 minutes and never got back to home base and never heard off for years. Over land pa yan. Baka pinagbili na sa magbabakal.
Tongue-Twisted, hindi ba si Gen. Ver naging personal driver ni Marcos kaya ginawang AFP Chief of Staff? Kung sa bagay, hindi natin masisisi iyang mga iyan kung security at loyalty ang pinag-uusapan. Especially for this GMA today, she needs as much loyal people around her as possible.
Valdemar, I think I heard that same story, 4 missing widowmakers that were never accounted for. Baka ito yung pang-ghost delivery pag may new order!
Nov. 26 pa nawawala. Malamang ay tuluyan ng hindi sila makita, lalo at hindi naman hinahanap!
Sad to say, S211 is use only as spray and surveillance airraft of U.S. Department of Agriculture.
“S211 is use only as spray and surveillance airraft of U.S. Department of Agriculture.”
Hahahaha!
RE: Ho-hummmm. Wala naman jets na lumipad for the search and rescue. thats only for the papers. The ‘lost’ craft is only a story so the airforce can drop it from someone’s accountability.
Valdemar,
Yaks, nadali mo Pare! Ang Airforce eh wala namang F16/F19/F21/Tornado/Mirage/, buti pa KAYABANGAN…. hayon may tora-tora nga naman grounded naman at may ilang pirasong trainer jets kuno eh nagbabagsakan naman, kasi po walang gasolina na karga kasi ang mahal sa merkado US$ 100/per barrel na.
Nagtitipid sila para may makurakot, kaya kawawang mga piloto 10 feets below the ground ang bagsak, kung makikita pa ang kanilang mga labi.
Remember ang kamag-anak ko (RIP:Francisco)na PAF Pilot (PMA graduate ito) young promising soldier eh bumagsak ang tora-tora (S211) nila recently hayon maagang pumanaw sa mundo.
Wala namang guts yang enchanted kingdom na iniidolo ng marami nating kababayan?
Good day to you AdeBrux,
I missed all your message last nite, ayaw mag-appear itong mga massage ko parang namasyal pa sa enchanted kingdom.
I agree with you that PAF S211 are capable ONLY for banana plantations or pang spray ng palay o kaya mangahan para mamulaklak.
The AFP are very proud for their KATANGAHAN, buti pa ang Bangladesh eh mayroong highly sophisticated aircratf ang Pinas mayroon ngang tora-tora grounded naman at itong S211 galing pa ata ito sa Europa eh low tech naman, hayon nagbabagsakan.
Isa nga sa biktima nito eh kamag-anak ko na nautas sa batang edad, mga ilang taon palang ang nakalipas, bumagsak ang dala nilang jet doon pa sa bubong ng bahay somewhere dito sa Luzon island.
Pobreng PAF dapat magsipagbitiw na ang mga pilito natin ang mag-apply na lang sa foreing airlines buti pa doon malaki ang sweldo at safe pa at well maintained at mga bago.
Yan ang tutuo… That’s the reason why i’ve proposed to buy anti aircraft missile nuong pang 1980’s kaysa upgrade ang Air Force ngayon dahil we don’t have any capacity to buy even 1 new Figther Aircraft from U.S.or Europe. Ayaw naman natin bumili sa russia. We can defend our country by setting up anti aircraft in every provinces. Dahil we don’t have any intention of attacking our neighbors, defensive lagi tayo. Naniniwala ako na sinumang bansa pumasok sa pilipinas mahihirapan sa pinoy. BUT REMEMBER WE HAVE NO CAPACITY TO FIGHT OUTSIDE OF OUR TERRITORY. Kasi walang pera nasa germany na…. Saka protekyon nila GMA, dahil walang magagamit ang gustong mag kudeta…
Tongue,
Problem with landing a fighter jet (even if it’s kakalog kalog like the S211) in a busy or populated area, eg, you mentioned is that there’s bound to be someone or usyoso who will squeal.
The runway in El Nido, remote as it may be may not be good enough. If we are to pursue the piracy angle (by the aircraft’s own pilots), one area is behind “enemy lines”, i.e., in MILF or MNLF stronghold perhaps. This is probably way off but inasmuch as we are considering that angle, heck, why not? Who will squeal? Could easily have landed too in Sabah, near the Malaysia Royal Navy submarine base there, excellent tarmac, discreet, and hey, buyers aplenty there.
No way a junior, inexperienced pilot could have landed on the makeshift tarmac in one of the Spratley Islands owned by Pinas, I think it’s in Ayungin, the landing craft vessel that was used for a makeshift tarmac there is much too short and not unstable. Need to be an F-18 or Rafale ace to even try.
Re: What’s his ass name again? Oh yeah, Esperon rushing to Malaysia when the Pen was being invaded by the police, could be that MGen Garcia, the fellow who is negotiating for the govt of the Philippines (to turn over portions of Mindanao to our dear, old, true grit parallel armies, the MILF and MNLFs), makes me wonder too — but only in passing — if there hasn’t been something about air fight that was engaged.
But why Malaysia? Malaysia — in theory, Malaysia is not overtly hostile in the Spratleys against the Philippines (their main concern is to steal Sabah for good but really, they aren’t that gung ho about engaging the Philippines in a battle over the Spratleys.) Could be Malaysia is playing mediator? Their intel ain’t bad.
If we are to lend credence to the theory that there was hostile fire, could be from one of two countries that are overtly hostile to Pinas over the Spratleys: Vietnam and China. Both have anti-air guns positioned well on their now you see it now you don’t “properties” in the Spratleys. Vietnam wouldn’t engage in air battle because they can’t possibly fly their plane from Vietnam and back — much too far. But China, yes, although even then, I don’t believe there was a dog fight — more like a surface to infra-red heat seeking air missiles (VSHORADs), which both countries possess in abundance. A lock on by the Chinese VShorad (forgotten the frigging name of their shitty Vshorads) could be effected at a distance of 5 km. Enough to send an S211 reeling and down. (Am pretty sure the goddamn Chinese have developed their shoulder-fire-line-of-sight Vshorads, coz the bloody Chinks stole bits and pieces of the technology from UK and Canada and must have come up with their own immitation.)
One of the realistic ways to find out if our aircraft had ventured outside Philippine air space is satellite photos.
For all we know, the aircraft may already be in Indonesia and is well on its way to Afghanistan or Pakistan…
hi Georgerc1,
Walang pong pera ang AFP naibulsa na ng mga Heneral natin?
Isa na diyan si Gen. Garcia at iba pa? Si Tabako nga eh porbes park alabang nakatira eh? Magkano ba ang mga sweldo ng mga General problems natin?
Kawawang Pinas, dapat e-close na yang PMA?
Hi Balweg! Good to hear from you again.
Re: “That’s the reason why i’ve proposed to buy anti aircraft missile nuong pang 1980’s kaysa upgrade ang Air Force ngayon dahil we don’t have any capacity to buy even 1 new Figther Aircraft from U.S.or Europe. Ayaw naman natin bumili sa russia.” — georgerc1
Di puwedeng pa isa isa ang pagbili ng new fighter aircraft.
You gotta buy them by squadrons kung bago. Now, if you want F-5s, puwedeng makabili ng in batches of 4. Kaso, the Norwegians were proposing to sell their F5s (in good nick yan dahil the Norwegians have a culture of maintenance unlike our dear old PAF that has a strange culture of CANNIBALISM instead of maintenance culture), but good Old Uncle Sam bloody refused to allow to assign end user certificates to Pinas!!!!!!! So, what happened, ayun nabenta sa Paraguay or Peru (anyway one of the South American countries).
Re anti-aircraft. Very costly (tapos nanakawin lang). There are several types, eg, long range, medium range, short range, very short range (the last one is last line of defence which means that if you are obliged to use it, it’s because the air intruder is already at your doorstep) and given the topography of Pinas, you’ll need thousands of them — even if you want to be reasonable, you’ll have to earmark at least 100 million Euros to have a credible deterrent number of missiles (mix na yan ha…)
Ooops, “… the landing craft vessel that was used for a makeshift tarmac there is much too short and UNSTABLE (now you see it now you don’t kind of). Need to be an F-18 or Rafale ace to even try — our pilots are still babies in that sense.
Sayang, we had EXCELLENT fighter pilots during Marcos’ time but sadly, the know how is slowly ebbing away because of lack of practice, no aircraft, no practice, know how goes away.
The cost of training a fighter pilot in the West (France for instance), is in the tune of 20 to 30 million Euros… as expensive as the aircraft. You can replace an aircraft right away but you cannot replace a lost fighter pilot as easily!
An S211 second hand but in good nick can be sold today, on the black market easily for 10 million dollars!
(Iyon nga lang, kailangan nakawin at fly out muna bago mabenta — the pilot will have to train the buyer pa… heheh!)
Fact No. 5: Cover up (theory).
After the incident, assperon went to Malaysia followed by Gen Fojas, the AFP operations chief J-3. No clear reasons regarding their visit. Fojas spent days in Malasia.
all talks about pilots camaraderie that would lead to unauthorized retaliation is completely false. Nowadays, all PAF Aircraft are not allowed to fly without the written approval from the Commanding General or the Wing Commander (in palawan paf base for this instance) where a particular aircraft is dispatched.
it is more likely that reports of actual hostile fire be covered up because this government cannot afford to engage another war (political war) in international scenery.
isa pa pera lang naman talaga habol ng mga heneral na nag lobby ng modern fighter aircraft to secure the spratlys kasi bawal talaga sa AFP ang tumira ng “perceived” foreign agressors. So sa bawat eroplano na bibilhin ng pinas ay milyon milyong pera ang ma kurakot ng mga tiwaling heneral.
Re: “Nowadays, all PAF Aircraft are not allowed to fly without the written approval from the Commanding General or the Wing Commander (in palawan paf base for this instance) where a particular aircraft is dispatched”
Hahahhahahaha! Is that so?
Shades of the old USSR when the MIGS where manufactured with limited range so as to deter any would be defector to fly out of USSR air space… hahahah!
By the way, georgerc1, for your info, Malacanang has VSHORADs so, in reality, Pinas has some missiles. (Infrared heat seeking… 6km range, easy to use, etc.)
None of the major services has any missile but Gloria has! Heh!
Sa AFP, mas madami pa ang mga airforce generals kesa aircraft natin!
Taiwan decommissioned its F-5E aircrafts (more advanced than our F-5s). Dalawang squadrons yun. Gusto nilang ibigay sa Pilipinas kaya lang di pwede kasi merong diplomatic consequences. Naglalaway ang mga heneral kasi libre na naman sana.
Zardux,
Not quite true that Taipei was willing to give their F-5s for free. They were prepared to exchange them with Pinas on the condition that Pinas allows them to use our runways and air space for training purposes of their pilots.
They had 60 in their inventory from which PAF could use a couple of squadrons as you say; the rest could be cannibalized.
Pinas has sidewinders so no problem with basic weaponry.
Zardux,
There are many, many second hand aircraft for sale on the market — at a fraction of their cost brand new. European govts are prepared to sell them to Pinas but as ever when it comes to F-5s (or the antiquated F-4s), seller country that owns the aircraft need authorization from US and truly, the US refuses to assign end user certificates to third party, particularly to Pinas. Never quite understood why US refuses.
Actually the refusal is not by US DoD which has an enormous graveyard of mothballed equipment but industry or manufacturer is adamant and lobbies hugely with US DoD not to authorize assignement of end user certification… Ang kalaban ng Pins is defence industry in the US.
Even Taipei WOULD HAVE HAD GREAT DIFFICULTY transfering ownership of those F-5s to Pinas… not easy! They would have to convince America to allow them to do it first.
That’s how it works.
Your best bet is to purchase 2nd hand Mig 21 or 25 — they’re excellent aircraft and are not as expensive as Mirage, aging F-16s.
Am sure Russia has one or two squadrons for sale.
Difficult for Pinas to buy other more modern aircraft like Tornado (expensive and limited production so not selling), Rafale (don’t count on it, you will need to sell Gloria to the devil that is if the devil buys her to be able to afford one) or F-18 (too costly); even 2nd hand one squadron will cost you every Pinoy an arm and a leg and I mean that literally.
ADB,
“Even Taipei WOULD HAVE HAD GREAT DIFFICULTY transfering ownership of those F-5s to Pinas… not easy! They would have to convince America to allow them to do it first.”
That’s true. I just got the info from our friends in Meco.
Welcome, bronchonana!
Take note that the first line of my article is highlighted. That means it is linked to another site. That particular phrase is linked to the Inquirer story on the missing S2-11 the day it was reported missing.
That would help in understanding the background of this case.
while the legal claims of the spratlys are said to be settled in diplomatic means, so war is not a feasible means at the moment. not that it is not an option, but we’re incapable in protecting what is rightfully ours.
if the theory is true that our missing brothers was most likely terminated by foreign powers, then we are paralyzed up by own fear — “…We have no capacity to fight outside of our territory” says georgerc1.
Looking back the history and even today, it has been proven that legal and diplomatic claims on disputed territories do not always work. The ones that have the upper hands are the more powerful nations. Let’s not be complacent with the Spratly islands. It’s one volcano that can erupt anytime. It only takes one incident involving a couple of aggressive claimants to trigger and spark a major conflict. Needless to say, RP cannot do anything being one of the weaker if not weakest countries claiming it. All RP could do is watch at the sideline and hopes that the larger countries share with us a small piece of the meat. Sad but that’s the reality. Sino naman ang matatakot sa atin eh kung iyong Sabah na talaga naman atin hindi natin mabawi? Iyon pang Spratly na maraming bansa ang may gusto. Sa Sabah, RP at Malaysia lang naman.
Ladies and Gentlemen:
While off topic, I enjoin all of you to visit the website of Newsbreak and read a detailed reportage on the SCTEX project, titled — When Aid Comes With Strings Attached.
This top-to-bottom madness has to end! Once again, NEDA was proven to be an obsolete agency! What is the relevance of the Secretary General? Guess what? Romulo Neri was co-opted again!
Paging Yuko to look into the financial aspects of the project and make representations probably?
Imagine what the “overprice” could do to alleviate poverty in RP….
Over at the Persian Gulf, Iranian and US warships almost came to a blow when five Iranian attack boats challenged three US warships. As usual, the US claimed they were in international water. Between the two nations, I’m on the side of the Iranian not because I hate America but I believe Iran has the right to protect her territory by securing the sea lose to her. What are those US warships doing there even if they are in international water? The picture is very clear to Middle-East crisis observers. After Iraq, the US next target is Iran. There’s no dispute about this. Let’s hope that there won’t be a US-Iran war. Iran is no peanut. It has a powerful military as well as nuke. If the US thinks she could do to Iran what she did to Iraq, she would be in for a surprise for Iran has long been preparing for this scenario. With US’s involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan and current crisis in Pakistan and Kenya, the coming US election, can US afford to have another major conflict with Iran? You won’t believe it but the answer is yes. In fact, it could be what the US wants. With the weak US dollar and anticipated recession, the US makes money out of wars. She has done this in the past and will keep doing this.
Hi AdeBrux,
Good advice, alam mo available ang mga iyan sa ukay-ukay (joke only!). Yan ang gusto ni uncle SAM sa Pinas wag umasenso in short ng magdepend na lang tayo sa kanila economically & militarily. Di ba yan ang totoo?
BB,
Nice observations! You know, enchanted kingdom have highly sophisticagted armaments and equipped with high frequency radar?
If the US have F15/F16/F18/F19/F21 ang Pinas naman have F-FVR(tabako); F-JP(jose pidal); F-EE(tatang rmita); F-RP(ronnie puno); F-RG(raul gonzalez); F-SA (talkative postol); F-LM (leandro mendoza hay naku maraming pang iba.
Look, di ba #10 Pinas sa world about bribery!
#2 Pinas sa Southeast Asia sa corruption!
#1 corrupt President!
#1 extrajudicial killings from 2001-2007!
The best ang armaments ng enchanted kingdom sa kahihiyan!
Contingency,
AFP is so severely mismanaged that it can’t even fight within its own territory.
Ellen,
What’s up with the missing pilots and aircraft?
Nov Inquirer article quotes PAF spokesman “We don’t know what happened. We don’t know if it crashed. We lost contact … it’s missing.”
Any development?
“The clouds were not thick but it spanned a wide area. The two aircraft entered the clouds at 6,000 feet. The lead plane talked to the wingman to ask if they he could still see him (lead plane). The lead pilot decided to go up to 8,000 feet,” Tolentino said.
“But at that point, when the lead plane tried to contact the wingman, there was no more answer,” he said at a press conference late afternoon Monday.
STRANGE…
I don’t know much about flying jet planes; formations and such. Nevertheless, I would think that a wingman is supposed to stay close with the lead plane. At least, this is what I see in the movies(to tell you the truth.)
Anyway, the story by the PAF spokesman is sketchy, there is no mention of what came out of the American assisstance. So, as one would expect, there is a lot of speculation as to what happened. The Inquirer story was as of nov/26 – very old news, indeed.
As to whether the plane was downed by enemy(who could this be?) fire, the lead plane would have surely known, if they were flying in formation.
As to retaliating by force, if indeed the plane was downed by enemy fire, lets not kid ourselves.
Don’t worry, the PAF will come up with something. Worse comes to worse, they can say a UFO kidnapped the plane.
Did they investigate the lead pilot? For personal grudges, maybe?
Malaya’s update:
Missing jet not shot down: PAF chief
AIR Force chief Lt. Gen. Pedrito Cadungog on Monday dismissed speculations that the missing S211 plane that disappeared last Nov. 26 while on maritime patrol off the disputed Spratly Islands had been shot down by hostile forces.
“Definitely not shot down. Very remote,” Cadungog said of the still missing aircraft which had been dispatched from Puerto Princesa to look for fishermen whose boat had capsized in the Spratlys.
The Spratlys, said to be rich in oil and mineral deposits, are being claimed in part or in whole by the Philippines, China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, and Taiwan.
Cadungog said it was more likely that the plane piloted by Capts. Bonifacio Soriano II and Gavino Mercado Jr. crashed. “But this is just our theory based on history of similar cases and experiences,” he added.
Air Force personnel who know Mercado (Philippine Military Academy 1999) and Soriano (PMA 2000) have demanded an inquiry into the two pilots’ fate, charging the military’s top brass with “ineptness” and “corruption” and hinting that the jet had been shot down.
Another S211 jet which flew in tandem with the missing one returned to Puerto Princesa City hours after their dispatch. Officials initially said the missing jet encountered thick clouds which could have disoriented the pilots plus the communications were cut off.
Meanwhile, the Chinese embassy in Manila yesterday denied involvement in the disappearance of the jet, saying rumors that it had been shot down were “malicious and completely and totally untrue.”
Embassy spokesman Peng Xiubin said his government has no knowledge about what happened to the jet and where it is now.
Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman Claro Cristobal said they have not received any request from the PAF to communicate with the Chinese and Vietnamese embassies regarding the issue.
International law expert Harry Roque said government must take steps to find out what happened to the jet and the pilots. He said even “mere suspicion” that China or Vietnam is involved is enough reason for the DFA to move. “Any acquiesence on the part of the Philippine government will bolster the territorial claims of both China and Vietnam,” Roque added.
Cadungog said the search for the missing jet will continue until the aircraft and the pilots are found. “This is our responsibility and we must perform the search efforts no matter how difficult. The pilot corps, by our unique tradition, would not allow anyone of us to just be (declared) missing without looking for them. We are looking for our missing comrades no matter how long it takes,” he added. – Victor Reyes and Ian Anthony Cruz
Unless the missing plane was blasted down to tiny bits, the pilot could have been auto-ejected and activated the seat’s homing device. Well, that’s if the Agusta-built S211s were made that way.
Definitely not shot down, very remote…anong klaseng statement ito? Kung definite ibig sabihin sigurado eh bakit pa may pahabol pang “very remote”? Another lie !
Tongue-Twisted, the pilots could have been abducted by aliens from outer space. Kung iyan ang paliwanag ng AFP at Malacanang, maniniwala pa ako.
Did you know that the AFP Modernization Law passed in 1995, from which sprung the AFP Modernization Program the next year, has a fifteen-year acquisition and 22-year payment schedule? The program ends 3 years from now yet no substantial accomplishments have been made!
” These are the five components of the program:
1. Force Restructuring and Organizational Development
focuses on reorganizing the Armed Forces into a compact, efficient at and responsive standing force with the capability for defense and nation-building functions. Manpower will be reduced by as much as 20% to about 90,000 in a ten-year period to create a “lean and mean” organization.
The role of reserve forces will be emphasized through a “Total Force” concept which will build the reserve force as a responsive and ready formation that will provide for the expansion of the AFP in case of war or national emergency.
2. Capability, Materiel and Technology Development
involves the acquisition and upgrade of armaments and equipment which will be synchronized with the phase out of uneconomical and obsolete weapon systems and other equipment. Major equipment to be procured include:
Air Force: multi-role fighters, surface attack aircraft, long range patrol air craft and air defense radar;
Navy: corvettes, offshore patrol vessels and patrol crafts;
Army: armored vehicles, helicopters, artillery and air defense systems.
3. Bases/Support System Development
entails the development of permanent land, air and naval bases with adequate support systems and facilities.
4. Human Resource Development
involves the development of the overall level of competence and professionalism of the Officer and Non-Commissioned Officer Corps, enlisted and civilian personnel.
5. Doctrine Development
requires the formulation, evaluation and institutionalization of doctrine at the strategic, operational and tactical levels.
The total amount required for AFP modernization is P331 billion over a 15-year procurement period and a projected 22-year payment period. The is divided into two sub-programs due to legislative and financial constraints. Sub-program I, the core program, is allocated a budget of P164 billion while the ancillary program, sub-program II, requires P167 billion. Congress has further limited an allocation ceiling of P50 billion for the first five-year phase of sub-program. Succeeding budget figures for the next two phases will be dependent upon the overall performance of the economy. ”
How much has been spent already and what have been delivered?
Siguradong nakakahiyang alamin.
The details:
AFP MODERNIZATION PROGRAM
(Equipment Acquisition)
AIR FORCE
Type Sub-program I Sub-program II
Multi-Role Fighter 24 12
Surface Attack Aircraft 12 12
Light Lift Aircraft 9
Medium Lift Aircraft 6
Heavy Lift Aircraft 2
Search and Rescue 3 9
Helicopter 2 2
Heavy Lift Helicopter 6
Long Range Patrol Aircraft 6
Air Defense Radar
NAVY
Type Sub-program I Sub-program II
Corvette 3 3
Patrol Craft 18 6
Patrol Boat 10 6
Offshore Patrol Vessel 7 5
Mine Warfare Vessel 1 2
Frigate 3
ARMY
Type Sub-program I Sub-program II
Individual Weapon 15 lots 2 lots
Crew-Served Weapon 6 lots 5 lots
Artillery 112 40
Armor 19 89
Aviation 17
Air Defense 4 lots 9 lots
BB,
They could also say the missing jet entered a black hole or that it strayed to a mysterious warped dimension a la-Bermuda Triangle.
Possible…Tongue-Twisted. The Spratly islands could be a Bermuda Rectangle or Spratly Triangle. There could be a very strong and powerful magnetic force that brought down the PAF plane.
This is the dumbest, misinformed, implausible and sensationalist piece of crap that I have seen recently. First of all, if a claimant country in the Spratlys did shoot down the jet the news would be all over their media as it would be good propaganda: they can claim that they defended their righteous claim on the Spratlys against the belligerent intrusions of the Philippine Air Force. There have been no such declarations by the other claimants in the Spratlys, even though they have previously been very vocal about any intrusion, even by fishing boats.
Secondly, the fact that they were flying at a low altitude leads to a more credible explanation to the loss of the aircraft: a failure (by the airplane or the pilot) or unexpected turbulence that the pilot was unable to correct in time. Airplanes flying at jet speeds (greater than 400 kph) at low altitudes have only seconds to correct for any problems. It’s a simple matter of math: divide 1000 feet (300 meters) by the speed of descent of a fighter plane (say 50 meters/second or about 200 kph) and you see that the pilot would have less that 6 seconds to correct any problem before the airplane crashes into the sea. A pilot trying to correct such a problem at low altitude would have no time (nor inclination: makikipagdaldalan ka pa ba kung 6 seconds lang e sasalpak na sa dagat yung eroplano mo?) to radio his status to the lead plane before crashing.
Lastly, as others in here have pointed out, the S2-11 is not as sophisticated or reliable as the article would have you think. Here’s some information on the S2-11’s history with the PAF: http://www.hueybravo.net/Airforcepage/s211.htm . From the start accidents have plagued the S2-11 which led to the cancellation of further orders.
What I see from this article is not a belligerence of the other claimants in the Spratlys but an irresponsible columnist trying to dredge up something newsworthy on a slow news day.
Why dont they ask the Americans. The USAF has more than one AWAC 24/7 at the Spratleys and a regular pattern of ORIONS monitoring the weather. And what is that radar dome doing at Lubang. The Phil Marines can see the neighboring Vietnamese island filled with howitzers, etc and can even hear the viet dogs barking, so they could have observed hostile fire if any.
I’m not making fun of the missing plane and pilots. But during this terrible time, okay na din magpatawa kahit hindi nakakatawa. Who knows…it could be the Americans who shot down our plane. Media blackout lang kasi. Kapag mabisto uli, they would again claim it was an accident…friendly fire daw. It’s unlikely the US did not and does not know what’s going on in that place. Sophisticated ang intelligence nila and they have satellite in the orbit to check and see what’s going on thousands of miles below. Pinabagsak nila para umpisahan ang giyera sa Spratlys. Or maybe such incident was invented to divert the attention of the people from that controversial Sulu hospital incident.
Fat4eyes, okay, enlighten us, ignoramus about flying who have only our common sense to guide us: If it crashed due to pilot error or for some other reasons, where are the aircraft and the bodies?
So many theories have come up and whose fault is it?More than a month a a half have passed and there has been no update on the progress of the investigation.
Take note that what I published was a letter from some AFP pilots. Those are their concerns. Those are not invented concerns. It would do the Air Force good to address them.
Ellen,
The sea is a very large place. And there was a typhoon in the region. Need I say more?
Yes an investigation is very necessary, but it should focus more on plausible causes for the crash instead of highly unlikely scenarios. What annoys me is that the inclusion of hostile fire scenario appears to be only an attempt to get in the news instead of a sincere concern for the pilots.
Ellen,
The fellow who wrote the note about this article being “crap” either knows a lot because he’s an insider or doesn’t know anything about what happened — if the commenter is from the AFP, he will belong rightly to the bunch of air without force.
You are the only one of all the columnists who have shown a real heart for the abused officers and men of the AFP and that’s what certain creeps in the AFP cannot stomach, that your articles are hitting those creeps where it hurts. Good!
And to think that one woman, a civilian to boot like you could make a difference — that must hit them really hard, particularly asshole Esperon!
Tongue,
Re: “The program ends 3 years from now yet no substantial accomplishments have been made!”
How the frig could these creeps do anything substantial when all they think of is how to frigging fatten themselves, learn to play golf and to lick Gloria’s ass?
These generals are all yabang!
In a crime scene, a case or investigation is never closed unless there’s physical evidence to support it. Ellen was correct in asking where the aircraft and bodies of the pilots.
The pilots could have been eaten by the sharks if they indeed died; but the sharks don’t eat the parts of the plane. There must be a few pieces that could be seen after such a long time. And fattyreyes, not all incidents are being reported to the media or reported by the media. Had it not for some concerned citizens and Dr. Lakkian, the media would not have learned about that Sulu incident.
TO MR. FAT4EYES,
“What I see from this article is not a belligerence of the other claimants in the Spratlys but an irresponsible columnist trying to dredge up something newsworthy on a slow news day.”
This sarcastic comment wont help the PAF or the AFP good because this veteran journalist is just telling the sentiment of the concerned colleagues of the “missing pilots”. Why make hell against ellen? She is just publishing valid points that caused infuriation from the missing pilots mistah or classmate or what have you because of the PAF’s reluctancy to conduct a thorough investigation before making a final declaration that yhey are indeed missing beyond reasonable doubt.
i do believe you are also a pilot but read the article thoroughly and you’ll find out that the author writer did not discount the possibility of pilot’s error to which only the PAF can ascertain the cause of accident thru a proper investigation.
more than a month of guessing game about this tragedy is too much. period! what was insulting is the claim of Phil Coast Guard based in palawan that the s2-11 wreckage has been found and said in Phil Daily Inquirer that the aircraft has no sign of force abandonment. Dont you think something is foul on this claim to justify PAF’s missing declaration?
I’ve got tons of documents in my possession concerning plans, more plans, all plans from the time the the AFP was planning to modernize and yet nothing has been achieved.
When Erap came to power, the treasury that was supposed to frigging contain funds for modernization (from the sale of military bases, etc.) was EMPTY! Where did the money go? And of course, despite that Erap was able to assemble something like 2.5 billion pesos to commence the purchase of materiel but as we all know, he was toppled and who took over? Gloria!! She and her cohorts are responsible for the incredible and pathetic state of our AFP!
One more thing before I leave: Hostile fire does not vaporize the airplane. There would still be wreckage found, so the inability to find the plane or the pilots is not an argument for hostile fire.
Let me reiterate: it is much more likely that a failure in the airplane or inclement weather conditions or pilot error caused the loss of the aircraft than hostile fire. If you want an investigation, investigate the state of maintenance of the remaining jets. Unless you find that too boring for the news.
Fat4eyes, re: “If you want an investigation, investigate the state of maintenance of the remaining jets.”
That one I’d be interested,if you could help me with it. Anything that protects the interest of Filipino taxpayers, I’d be interested.
Before you leave fattyeyes, Ellen was only sharing this blog what was told to her by the AFP pilots. It was not her opinion. She reported like what a normal journalist does. It was unfair and rude for you to call her irresponsible columnist!
I’m with Brownberry on that, 100%!
Ellen,
Those planes are quite old — Fatty eyes is right; kakalog kalog na yan; air frame can only withstand so much after some time particularly when you have few of them and you use them all the time, there’s bound to be problems.
S211 isn’t the best trainer aircraft in the world.
(Anyway, As I have posted earlier on, I must say that the shot down theory was not quite believable but the old and poor condition of the aircraft and couple that by the inadequate training hours of our pilots area lethal combination for any pilot.)
again to Mr fat4eyes,
telling ellen to do the investigation is futile for reason that corrupt military leaders are expert of suppressing the truth. kaya nga nag alboroto ang mga junior officers like trillanes dahil sa katiwalian ng iyong mga heneral.
if you want to prove ellen wrong then why dont you volunteer to do the investigation so that the public will know that ellen is wrong and irresponsible. bato bato sa langit kung natamaan ka ay normal magagalit.
hahaha
But I could see that this fat4reyes was very knowledgeable about the subject. Baka insider nga iyan. Or he could be the one who shot down the plane. Kung ikaw iyon, aminin mo na para hindi kami mahirapan dito sa kahuhula. Huwag ka munang umalis…aminin mo muna.
Like Ellen said, the argument that the plane was shot down came from the missing pilots’ comrades. So fat4eyes, if you want to get angry, get angry at the lettersenders. Don’t shoot the messenger.
By the way, I’m praying that the scenario that the plane is in Magdalo hands now is the real scenario…it lends credence to Tongue’s blog that everything follows a plan…
Naiintriga ako sa pangalan mo kaibigan. May bronchitis ka na eh may nana pa sa anong parte? Agree ako sa sinabi mo…bhutto-bhutto sa langit ang tamaan ay sasabog.
I’m serious about doing a special report on the state of the remaining jets.
In the first paragraph of the letter, there’s a sentence that intrigued me:
I’d be interested to know more about it.
Nice link, fat4eyes, but the more I read, the more I bleed. (The website however, aims its artillery against Querubin, et al and advocates replacing Gloria via a fair elections! Bootlickers, no doubt.)
An Armed Forces of cannibals! I would now want to believe blogger Benign0 that we’ve never gone beyond the jeepney in terms of technology.
Why don’t we commission Leonardo Sarao (Mad Max, even) and make him AFP Chief? Geesh.
Ellen,
Apparently there are ONLY 5 left? (and that includes the missing aircraft?) HOLY SHIT — what happened to the rest?
How many S211 squadrons were purchased by Cory?
Fatty4eyes,
Ms. Ellen is already calling your challenge.
The question is, are you willing to help her out?
Tongue,
AFP has no maintenance culture! They boast of being able to keep their materiel in good nick because of CANNIBALISM CULTURE… How can you expect to posses good equipment when you don’t maintain them properly?
Spare parts inventory is virtually absent — and if ever, they’re only good on paper… lots of spare parts are looted too.
ellen,
your letter senders i believe are more than willing to help you investigate jets kasi malamang magdalo din yun sila.hehehe
Re: ” There must be a few pieces that could be seen after such a long time. ”
Simple, PAF isn’t looking for them or if they are, they’re doing it when they feel like doing it.
corak 100% adebrux
Fat4eyes, thank you very much for the link. Very informative.
Tongue, wala pa ako doon sa part “The website however, aims its artillery against Querubin, et al and advocates replacing Gloria via a fair elections! Bootlickers, no doubt”.
I’ll check it out later. I have a 10 a.m. deadline.
Report: “Cadungog said the search for the missing jet will continue until the aircraft and the pilots are found. “This is our responsibility and we must perform the search efforts no matter how difficult. The pilot corps, by our unique tradition, would not allow anyone of us to just be (declared) missing without looking for them. We are looking for our missing comrades no matter how long it takes,” he added. – Victor Reyes and Ian Anthony Cruz”
Ja, ja, jawol, Herr General! I bet you became very concerned when the press started scintillating your butts!
Maybe this fattyreyes is keeping those aircraft parts. But in fairness to him, baka kasama din natin iyan sa iisang layunin laban sa rehimeng GMA. Iba lang ang approach niya. Yes, why don’t you help Ellen with the investigation? Tell us all what you know.
Anna:
“AFP has no maintenance culture! They boast of being able to keep their materiel in good nick because of CANNIBALISM CULTURE…
As it is with ALL government agencies. 20% spares budgetting is standard in new acquisitions, right? But that’s as far as “preventive” maintenance goes. When we buy 10 jets, for example, we’re actually buying twelve. When the spares are exhausted (assuming they were actually delivered) the cannibalization begins. I’ve seen it many times.
Gosh, even rubber hoses are transplanted to brake lines while generals are building mansions and buying ranches abroad!
Hahahahahahah! “Gosh, even rubber hoses are transplanted to brake lines while generals are building mansions and buying ranches abroad!”
Ellen, just remove everything after the slashes and hit the main dotnet address.
Sample:
(28 Feb 2006). Warning, this is an editorial.
Hat’s off to the men and women in the AFP who refused to take part in the past week’s events. Rule of law, chain of command held and ultimately the constitution held. Maybe there is hope for us yet.
Hahaha! It this Bunye’s website?
Slip of the TonGuE: Is this Bunye’s website?
Maintaining a credible defence force is very very expensive.
War is even more expensive.
Unless these fellows learn to manage the AFP very well, the AFP will not have any good materiel to boast of.
There’s just too much waste. (I’ve seen the waste in every major service — there must be a change in people psyche!)
Tongue knows that in order to keep your equipment in good order, you need 1st to maintain them regularl and second you need a consistent supply of spare parts (part of management) and to keep those spare parts in good nick.
Management is important and of course, looting should be out of the question!
Know what Tongue? Even the missiles that are in Malacanang are not maintained properly — we almost choked when we inspected them at some point.
The Navy ordered inflatable boats by the dozens some 10 years ago. 2 years later, more than half of them were already in decrepit state lying around in Sangley! Just incredible!
Firing an unmaintained missile is dangerous!
Flying an unmanned aircraft is more dangerous. Kidding aside, have you heard of “katay” or “chop-chop” ng mga sasakyan? Thieves steal vehicles, chop them to pieces and sell the parts to customers. Posibleng ninakaw ang eroplano at kinatay tapos ibenenta ang mga parts.
Hah! Flying giant kites could be dangerous too!
There are 4 islands I know manned by our military in the Spratleys. A fifth one we lost to the viets after the guys there waded to the next island for a birthday binge overnight. I am sure those islands were used as land points by the jets. At low altitudes they were logged down by the landlubbers. Now we can ask if anyone ever saw the flight that time. There were naval vessels, too, in the search. Those ships would normally log down those plane sightings and contacts. Care to check those logbogs? We can check the same in the daily incoming status reports at GHQ and at the hqs of the respective commands.
I’m no expert in history and geography. So, can you tell me who really has the rightful claim on the Spratly islands? I know Sabah is really ours…RP’s.; but I’m not sure about Spratlys.
I’m leaning towards mechanical failure. God knows the air force has a lot of those already. There was even one pilot who crashed a few year’s back who used to be known as Tom Cruise look-alike of PMA, after the crash (good thing he survived) he’s just scar face.
” This is the dumbest, misinformed, implausible and sensationalist piece of crap that I have seen recently – fat4eyes”
fat4eyes, you’ve got a crappy mind, probably a crapy mouth too, somebody should wash it with soap and water. Read the threads, they refer to published material.
China claims all islands in its chinese lake, all waters between China and the RP. Admiral Cloma of PMI ‘discovered’ and claimmed it for the Philippines and we have it as part of the Philippines according to our constitution. RP went on to occupy some islands in the Spratleys, it became a town of Palawan. Taiwan went there also. The Viets occupied one after our marines left it for a while. And the others are claiming some islands, also. The Malampaya oil fields are there. And the Bangsa Moro wanted Palawan to be their turf also. I guess ownership belongs to any squatter as long as he can occupy and guard it. Thats the norm in RP anyway.
Valdemar,
A very accurate assumption…
I’m from an Air Force family, and I hate to say this, but as far as alternate theories go, fat4eyes does have a point. In crash investigations, we must allow ourselves to look at all possibilities. His statement that the shoot down was a belligerent act by foreign elements rings true, but is incomplete. It could also have been an accidental shoot down. In which case, the foreign country will deny all knowledge of the same.
The real scandal here is the state of the Philippine Air Force. As AdeBrux has said, “all air, no force.” Both the insurgency and external security depend in great part on our capability to provide air support and air defense. As things stand we are so helpless, we cant even find our own pilots when they crash, without seeking the help of the US. How pathetic is that?
“Both the insurgency and external security problems”
Brownberry,
If I’m not mistaken, the Philippines has the best claim on the Spratleys based on international law. We were the first country to plant a flag on it and declare it formally as ours. Well, not exactly us, but the Japanese did during the Occupation for the Philippine Republic.
“His statement that the shootdown could not have been a belligerent act of a foreign country…” Sorry.
It is depressing to know that Ellen got a letter from the colleagues of Captains Mercado and Soriano who are concerned and infuriated by the Air Force’s hasty declaration of the two young pilots’ status as “Missing Crew” without a satisfactory investigation of the incident.
It is plain to see that from the numerous comments and opinions from people who appear to be in the know that incidents from the use of of worn out, obsolete equipment be it aircraft, shells, radio or indeed boots there’s no wonder that a rag tag band of 100 rebels (which seems to get bigger by the day not smaller) on Sulu are still undefeated.
The taxpayer has the vast expense of an armed force who it seems are unable to defend the country should we be truly invaded.
The sixty four dollar question is, where is the AFP budget being spent when it could be better spent on Education, Hospitals, Housing, Employment, Assistance to Street Children the Elderly and the like.
It is necessary to have a private audit on AFP expenditure.
The AFP are always very proud to have television crews around when they are doing a day’s Medical & Dental somewhere when we have private organizations such as the Lions Clubs and Rotary Clubs doing the same Medical & Dental (and more) quietly on a daily basis as volunteers with their hands deep into their own pockets I may add.
The armed forces should get themselves sorted from top to bottom before poking their nose into other areas of responsibility until they can perform professionally and find ‘lost’ pilots.
History points to whoever occupies a territory by force or other means belongs to them. That’s why there used to be lots of foreign colonies in poor and third world countries. Kung tutoong ang malaking bahagi ng Spratly ay sa Pilipinas, ano ang gagawin natin? Painful as it is, even if all the places are given to the Philippines, our government is unable to make good use of them. Sa tutoo lang eh ang dami nating natural resources pero dahil sa incompetence at corruption ng mga pinuno at namumuno…isama na natin ang pag-control ng mga dayuhan sa likas-yaman natin, walang nangyayari sa Pilipinas. So, even if the entire Spratly islands are given to RP, then what…what comes next? Baka lagyan lang ng mga vacation resorts at houses ng mga mayayamang pulitiko at opisyales natin doon. Sila lang din ang makikinabang…
BB:
Kulang na lang sabihin ng China na territory din ng China ang Pilipinas when the Chinese government pointed out that all the islands in the China Sea belongs to China.
The Philippines as we see on the map is situated between the China Sea and the Pacific Ocean. Tindi ding mang-angkin ano? Lalo na ngayong sinabi ni Gloria Dorobo na intsik iyong asawa niya gaya ni Jose Rizal, the national hero of the Philippines whose father is said to be from Amoy. Tapos yata pagdating sa Spain sabi naman nuno nila si Santa Teresa. E sa England, ano naman kaya ang ipinagyabang kay Queen Elizabeth?
Dios mahabagin, baka sinabi doon na nuno niya si Alexander the Great gaya ng sabi ni Dadong Macapagal sa libro niya, at pinakalola niya si Angelina Jolie! 😛
BB:
Distance-wise, Spratlys are nearer to the Philippines, but with reports of possible oil deposits there, Vietnam and China became interested in them. China now claims that all islands, inhabited and otherwise that are in the China Sea rightfully belong to China. Ang takaw din, di ba?
Good points, Yuko. Maiba ako ng kaunti ng usapan, balitang talagang nag-panic daw itong si GMA noong Manila Pen incident. She asked for all embassies’ statement of support pero ang US lang ang nagresponde. Kahit isa man Asian neighbor or member of ASEAN walang statement. Well, US’s declaration of support was enough for GMA to hang on. Here’s what I quote:
A senior Foreign Affairs official was reportedly given a specific task to call up embassies, particularly that of the United States and Association of South East Asian Nations (Asean) members.
But it appears that the request for statements of support from foreign governments for Mrs. Arroyo’s government was largely unheeded, as it was only the United States Embassy that issued a statement, reiterating its support to the rule of law, constitutional order and the government of the Philippines. It was also noted that the bishops were quiet throughout the siege and made noises only after it was over.
On that day, US Ambassador Kristie Kenney had spoken with officials at Malacañang Palace to express Washington’s “confidence that this incident is being swiftly and peacefully resolved by the Philippine National Police, supported by the Armed Forces of the Philippines, in accordance with the Philippine law.”
A senior Filipino diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed the phone calls made to several embassies in Manila.
E-mail from Atty Trixie C. Angeles, counsel for Army Capt. Ruben Guinolbay and Marine Capt. Nicanor Faeldon:
Ellen,
If I may suggest — if you want to investigate the depleted PAF materiel, one of the resource persons would be its former chief, Benjie Defensor — he is approachable; sure he will be “wary” but he will be prepared to “open doors” I’m sure.
Of course, there’s a need to “access” other resource persons in PAF particularly the young ones who are in active service to get balanced views.
Just to prove that the US and RP are cooking
something…they’re up to something that only the two know:
WASHINGTON – The US Defense Department has invited Philippine Defense Secretary Gilberto Teodoro for a visit to Washington in the second quarter of this year for a “getting to know you” meeting, informed military sources said.
It will be Teodoro’s first visit to the US capital since he assumed the defense portfolio in August 2007.
Klingon: “I’m from an Air Force family…
Of all the service branches I’m also partial towards the PAF. In my High School class alone, I had 4 classmates who were sons of PAF gens and about 7 colonels’. Some of those made it as far as CGPAF, or camp commanders, one has a camp named after him, the others went with Makoy to Hawaii. Another general’s son and I later dropped our Rayadillo units to cross-enroll ROTC at PAFCA.
Some of those 14-15 year old sons were driving their own cars to school! Now, I’m no longer surprised why the shabby force is in such decrepit state.
Ellen, one report says a forum in the US attended by my kapitbahay Atty. Harry Roque and former PCIJ journalist-now-US-professor Shiela Coronel, on this topic, turned to a heated argument between the two. What’s the score?
That news item was posted by Gabriela here in another thread. It was written by Malaya publisher Jake macasaet. I’ll look for it.
I’m an affected party here so I’d rather not talk about it. Let’s just say that “disappointed” is an understatement to describe my reaction.
I understand you. Will check Malaya, then.
I’ll email you later. I’m doing my column and rushing to a lunch appointment.
Tongue, this is the link to Mr. Macasaet’s column about the incident involving Harry Roque and Sheila Coronel in New York: http://www.malaya.com.ph/jan05/busi8.htm
Tignan niyo ang kalokohan ng mga Kano. At first, they showed the video that Iranian was provoking the US Navy. Pagyayabang pa nga ni Bush sa news conference sa Israel na siya ang nag-utos na huwag kumilos at gumanti sa mga Iranian. Pero ngayon, may lumabas na video mula sa Iran na wala naman provocation nangyari. In fact, there was a friendly communication between the Iranian Navy and US Navy per SOP. Sagot naman ng US, iyong pinakita ng Iranian na video tutoo daw pero umpisa lang iyon. Hindi daw pinakita ang sumunod na confrontation. Sinong paniniwalaan natin? Ang mga Kano na dati nang nagsisinungaling o ang Iranian? It’s America’s word against Iranian’s. Given the very poor credibility the US has and her warlike posture, mas naniniwala ako sa Iran. In the first place, kating-kati nang umatake ang US sa Iran at nahihirapan humanap ng tiyempo tulad ng ginawa nila sa Iraq. Etong Iran-US Navy confrontation ay maaaring isa sa mga invented stories ng America para ma-justify na naman ang pag-atake sa Iran. Why is Bush now touring the Mideast? Why did he go to Israel igniting the hearts of the Israelites against Iran? First Iraq, Afghanistan then Iran. The US wants to control the Mideast…para no? OIL.
BB: The US wants to control the Mideast…para no? OIL.
*****
Sinabi mo pa. For more info on this dis-information by Bush and his cohorts, visit the ff URLs:
http://www.iacenter.org
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info
I’ve been to Teheran and the refugee camp at the border between Afghanistan and Iran. Tindi ng anti-US doon sa totoo lang.
Sad to hear about Atty. Roque’s confrontation about Coronel, but between the two, I’d side with Atty. Roque for suppression of freedom of the press is never and should never be considered as nothing of value. Sayang iyong Magsaysay award given to Coronel!