Why can’t PNoy say ‘Come Home’ instead of ‘Surrender’

He still doesn’t get it.

God forbid, but what a members of your family are killed and someone comes during the wake and blames you for the tragedy, what would you do?

Answers of close friends I asked ranged from a tempered reaction of showing the rude person the door to violent acts including use of a tool that is banned during this election campaign period.

That must be the feeling of relatives of the 12 Filipinos who were killed in Lahad Datu, Sabah when Malaysian commandoes assaulted the place where some 200 followers of the Sultan of Sulu, led by his brother Rajah Muda Agbimuddin Kiram, were camping out. Two of the commandoes were also killed, according to news reports.

Agbimuddin Kiram and his followers arrived in Lahad Datu Feb. 12 to re-affirm their ownership of a large part of Sabah which Malaysia is renting from them for a pittance.

The day after the bloody encounter, President Aquino issued this statement which puts the blame on the followers of the Sultan of Sulu for the Friday massacre:

“To our citizens in Lahad Datu, from the very start our objective has been to avoid the loss of lives and the shedding of blood. However, you did not join us in this objective. Because of the path you have taken, what we have been trying to avoid has come to pass.

“If you have grievances, the path you chose was wrong. The just, and indeed, the only correct thing for you to do is to surrender.

“To those who have influence and the capacity to reason with those in Lahad Datu, I ask you to convey this message: surrender now, without conditions.”

Anne de Bretagne, a Filipino based in Europe who follows closely the Philippine claim on Sabah, took note of the close similarity of Aquino’s statement to that of Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak. She reproduced a report from the Malaysian press where Najib disclosed:”I telephoned President Benigno Aquino III of the Philippines last night to state the stand of the Malaysian government on the matter after the gun battle yesterday.

“I said the government felt that the time to consider the group’s demands had lapsed and that they had the option of surrendering or facing the action of the authorities and security force…their armed intrusion into the country and the killing of two security forces personnel and injuring of three others was a serious crime.”

Najib further said, “As such, the government would not proceed with negotiations or consider their demands.”

Dante Simbulan, a retired military officer, remarked “What kind of leader is this? Rather than protect the interests of his countrymen, he took the side of a foreign country! Sabah belongs to the Philippines! It was illegally given to Malaysia by the British imperialists. The British did not own Sabah. They were leasing it from the Sultan of Sulu. Proof? The Malaysians are still paying rent to the Sultanate.”

Aquino’s empathy for the Malaysians and lack of sympathy for the cause of the Sultan of Sulu (he called it a “hopeless cause” in an earlier speech) are obvious from the beginning of the standoff. This is attributed to the role of Malaysia as broker in the peace talks between the Philippine government and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front.

The reservation expressed by many of the inadvisability of Malaysia as peace broker in the talks with the MILF because of the Philippine claim on Sabah (based on the title of the Sultan of Sulu) has now come true. There cannot be genuine, lasting peace in Mindanao under an arrangement brokered by Malaysia because that would necessitate the giving up of the Philippine claim on Sabah.

That’s why Aquino considers the current Sultan of Sulu Jamalul Kiram III spoilers to the peace agreement that they are about to conclude with the MILF which they want wave as achievements of his administration.

Aquino has been taking a hardline position towards Kiram III. He probably didn’t realize that as he pushed Kiram against the wall, thinking that it would soften and make him (Kiram) surrender, he was also boxing himself in a situation that would not be easy for him to wiggle out.

He gave Kiram an ultimatum: “Surrender now, without conditions.” (Was it so hard for him to say, “Come home”?)

What happens if the Kirams will not surrender? What’s Aquino going to do when Malaysian commandoes resume the killing of Filipinos.

Does Aquino think that if they eliminate Rajah Muda Kiram and his followers in Lahad Datu, his problems with the Sulu Sultanate will be solved?

He is grossly mistaken. The wound created by the tragedy would be so deep, he would wish he had agreed to the meeting requested by Kiram III three years ago.

March 2, 2013 8:08 pm  Tags: ,   Posted in: Abante, Foreign Affairs

328 Responses

  1. chi - March 2, 2013 8:37 pm

    Utak Hacienda Luisita pa rin si Noynoy!

    “Ay kung si Aquino mismo, sa kanyang mga pahayag, duda nga sa claim ng Sultan ng Sulu, paano mo dadalhin yan sa ICJ” -Ellen

    Nakanganga akong humahagalpak ng tawa dahil sa m+n ng isang ito!

  2. chi - March 2, 2013 8:40 pm

    “…surrender now, without conditions.” -Pnoy

    Kung hindi sumurender, iratatatatatatat na lang ulit sila?

    Takutan has no place in a decent leadership!

  3. chi - March 2, 2013 8:45 pm

    Ayaw umalis ni Noynoy sa kanyang comfort zone, sa piling ng kanyang mga elite advisers. Sa dami ng mga intelihenteng Tausog na pwede nyang ipatawag at ng maayudahan sya sa negotiation sa mga Kiram ay mas pinili nya ang manakot. Suskopo!

  4. chi - March 2, 2013 8:51 pm

    Sa mga pronouncements ni Noynoy sa isyu itong ay napatunayan na sya ay ‘boss’ lamang… hindi lider.

  5. chi - March 2, 2013 8:59 pm

    “Kung may hinaing kayo, mali ang paraan na pinili ninyo. Ang makatuwiran at kaisa-isang inyong dapat gawin ay sumuko na.”-Noynoy

    Tatlong sulat na nga ang ipinadala sa iyo na apela para makausap ka tungkol sa Sabah issue na ibinasura lang ng Palasyo, anupa gusto mong paraan? Kayo ang nagkulang, pwede ba na ‘bumaba’ ka ng kaunt, isantabi ang biases sa personalities involved, at mag-isip kung ano ang tamang approach sa problema, like a leader?!

  6. chi - March 2, 2013 9:17 pm

    Para na rin sinabi ng pangulo: Surrender or Die!

  7. vic - March 2, 2013 9:26 pm

    Pnoy has no Control over the Action of Malaysian Authorities who as their PM just said, they are running out of Patient and it could only means one Thing…more bloodsheed and if that is to be Avoided the only option is to Surrender or Die (with dignity, except that those whose hands are soaked in blood are beyond the reach of Malaysians Commnandos and Soldiers,,,and the bleeding hearts as usual will bleed and for What? for those who blindly follow the blind? Is there anyone outside the country (government of authoritative agency) who even worry about this incident? That it was Malaysia to blame or Pnoy? let me hear or read about it…Has the UN anything to say about it or condemned the action of the Malaysia authorities? Or the US Secretary of State issued any statement about it?

  8. patria adorada - March 2, 2013 10:53 pm

    sino ba talaga ang M…N,ang mga advisers niya o siya mismo?sabi ng kaigan kong muslim,wala daw magawa si Pnoy sa malaysia dahil ito raw ang tumulong para magkaroon ng peace agreement sa milf but anong klaseng leader ka kung hindi mo puedeng ipaglaban ang karapatan ng iyong nasasakupan?

  9. sai - March 3, 2013 3:54 am

    parang napakadali lang na ibalik sa mga Kiram ang Sabah ano?

    kahit pa sabihin na may legal na basehan sila, mukhang nakakaligtaan nang lahat na hindi naman yan isang piraso ng lupa lang na walang katao-tao.

    heto ang realidad.

    ilang milyong katao ang nakatira dyan. karamihan sa kanila kinikilala ang sarili na mga Malaysians. ano ang gagawin mo sa mga taong nandyan? paaalisin mo ba sila? pipilitin na magpalit ng bansa at gobyernong susundin?

    wag lang natin tingnan ang Sabah na source of income lang. o pagmamay-ari lang ng mga Kiram. dahil kahit maibalik sa kanila ang Sabah na yan, sa tingin ba natin basta-basta tatanggapin ng mga taong nakatira duon ng ilang henerasyon na ang sitwasyon na yan? at sa tingin nyo, hindi ba yan gagamiting dahilan ng gobyerno ng Malaysia na ipaglaban naman ang karapatan ng kanilang sariling mamamayan?

    mas lalong dadanak ang dugo pag nagkaganun.

    pakiusap lang sa lahat ng mga grupo, lalo na ang mga Kiram, wag nang magmatigas at maging suicidal dahil kahit pa ipaglaban ng gobyerno ng Pilipinas ang karapatan ninyo sa Sabah, hindi aatras ang Malaysia dito lalo na at mas maraming Malaysians ang nakatira sa Sabah keysa sa mga Pilipino.

    chi, tama lang naman ang warning di ba? kamatayan lang ang naghihintay pag di sila sumurender. lalo na’t namatayan na rin ang mga Malaysians. atat na atat na sigurong sumugod ang mga yun.

    ngayon, malabong maibalik ang Sabah sa mga Kiram dahil aalma ang mga Malaysians na nakatira sa Sabah at siguradong gyera ang kahahantungan dyan.

    ang pwede lang mangyari ay taasan ang renta na ibinabayad sa mga Kiram. nagpahiwatig naman ang mga Kiram na aatras sila pag tinaasan ang renta di ba?

    heto lang ang tanong ko, talaga bang handang makipagpatayan ang mga tagasunod ng mga Kiram para lang sa renta?

  10. LCsiao - March 3, 2013 8:27 am

    ^ mukhang ganun nga

    Mas maganda, tanungin mo na lang ang PeNoy admin: “How low will you go?”

  11. LCsiao - March 3, 2013 8:31 am

    Isa pang pagkakahawig ni PeNoy at Gloria Dorobo:

    Pareho silang BRATINELLA!

  12. LCsiao - March 3, 2013 8:38 am

    Naku! Umeksena pa itong si Dinky Doo. Magpapamudmod daw siya ng aid sa Lahad Datu (as if natugunan na niya ang pangangailangan ng mga nasalanta ng “Pablo” at “Crising”). Paano kaya yun, iha-harness niya ang kanyang power of teleportation na simbilis ng kanyang pag-iyak ng crocodile tears? And for what–to show that “PeNoy cares”? Pweh!!!

  13. vic - March 3, 2013 2:39 pm

    @9 Sabah is 73 square Km in total area..the Phl is 212…one third the zise of the Phl with only about 3 millions population…very Rich in Resources including OIL and Forest Products, not YET EXPLOITED… From there you can think why there will be many theories including Conspriracies that will be hatched from this latest episode and everyone of them has the possibility of reality…and the Kirams consciously or unconsciously are being exploited by the shadowy figures behind…that too is possible…then we can also come up with a Theory that Pnoy and his adviser may have the inkling that these are the possibilities and also may have known that whatever measures they will Take, Malaysia will not Give up a Member State to an Armed “invaders” (actually it is a Blessing for Malaysia to go that Route as it is always a Sovereign Right to defend its Territory from armed INTRUDERS)that very WEALTHY piece of Member State…and the warnings of UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER is to save lives and not to further strained the Relations of Two friendly Countries…the Only Settlement the Kirams and his Heirs can expect from Malaysia if any is some Financial settlement…Territory..fat chance…

  14. vic - March 3, 2013 2:40 pm

    The area is in thousand of Square Kilometers which I missed to described..sorry for that ommission…thanks..

  15. sai - March 3, 2013 5:28 pm

    vic

    the reason why i referred to it as “a piece of land” is to not put an emphasis on it.

    size of a territory does not really matter here.

    the more than 3 million inhabitants of Sabah IS MORE IMPORTANT.

    am i the only one here who thinks this has a POTENTIAL to go the way of a Palestine-Israeli conflict or that in Northern Ireland?

    dapat isaalang-alang ang mga taong nakatira sa Sabah mismo.

    sa tingin ba natin Filipinos will be welcomed with open arms and everyone will sing kumbaya if the Kirams get Sabah back?

    o magpapatayan dyan dahil sa lupa?

  16. vic - March 3, 2013 6:18 pm

    sai
    I agree with you that the size of territory is immaterial that is why I always emphasize that in my post that,,,during DECOLINAZATION, those former colonies that were not settled by amicable negotiations among parties the inhabitants with in the territory in Disputes were allowed SELF DETERMINATION…and their decision took precedence over Historical claims leases unless under unique circumstances that may need settlement under the international accepted process or some may resort to Force (the Argentina Claim on the Falklands). I believe in 1963 there was that Process that gave the Sabahans the choice to determine which they wanted to Belong, the same process that Created the Republic of the Philippines from Commonwealth..when Filipinos by majority wanted to be an Independent Republic instead One of the States of the Union. And so the same with the other 7 Provinces and 2 territories (now split into 3) that complete the Dominion Of Canada.

  17. sai - March 3, 2013 7:12 pm

    vic

    unfortunately, some of the Kirams don’t share that view.

    one friend’s acerbic’s comment said that Aquino is actually soft on the Kirams and should just go to where the sultan is and tell him to order his men in Sabah to come back or face arrest.

    i said that that would infuriate the sultan’s supporters in Mindanao.

    he said it is better to have Filipinos fight each other than drag another country into the conflict.

    made me wonder how long majority of Filipinos start feeling the same way about the Kirams.

  18. chi - March 3, 2013 9:57 pm

    sai, baka bigyan tayo ng sampol ng following dyan mismo sa centro ng Quiapo, makakatakbo pa kaya ang commenter na yan? :)

  19. chi - March 3, 2013 10:28 pm

    Hindi lang pagbawi sa Sabah ang sinasabi ng grupo ni Kiram kundi pati ang possibilities na pwedeng gawin para sa protection ng claimants/heirs. Yan ang gusto nilang i-discuss kay Pnoy. As we know by now, tatlong sulat nabasura sa Palasyo. Pnoyn sent his men to Kiram hindi naman opisyal kundi nananakot din na tulad nya.

    Kasi nga moons ago, kung narinig/nabasa na ninyo, ay meron proposed corporation na isi-set dapat sa kooperasyon ng Malaysia daw, para nga protektahan ang heirs ng sultanate. After the initial dakdak, wala na. Ang renta ng Malaysia sa Sabah ay about P70,000 lang kada taon. Dapat nga ito na maka-clarify dahil ang nakita ko na mga resibo ay equivalent lang ng P50,000. Baka bumait ang Malaysia at dinagdagan sila ng P20,000 over the years, :).

    Habang yumayaman ang Malaysia sa paggamit nila ng Sabah panahon pa ni Mahoma, naghihirap pa rin ang mga tunay na nagmamay-ari ng North Borneo na naging biktima ng GB treaty, ang iba ay literal na pulubi. Alam yan ni Robin Padilla, ang kahirapan na dinaranas ng mga Kiram, sa totoo lang. Nakakalungkot na katotohanan, pero totoo.

    Gaya nga ng tanong ni MPrivera dito, sino sa inyo ang nakarating na sa Tawi-tawi/Datu Lahad o Sultanate of Sulu, o nakada-upang palad ang isa man lang sa mga claimants/heirs? Matagal sa area na yan si Magno, he knows where he’s coming from. Ako, mahabang kwento na nagsimula noong very early 20′s pa ako. :)

    Peace!

  20. chi - March 3, 2013 10:44 pm

    Leardership issue ang core ng problema ngayon, secondary na lang ang Sabah. Korek ba ako, Ellen?

  21. TonGuE-tWisTeD - March 4, 2013 1:46 am

    Nakakatawang nakakainis. Para ka na namang nasa Luneta naghihintay kung kelan mabubuksan yung pintuan ng bus na minamaso. Biglang mag-oorder si Lim na hulihin yung kapatid ni Mendoza.

    Napanood ko na sa lumang programa ito. Ilipat na ang palabas sa Combat. Nakakahiya na.

  22. TonGuE-tWisTeD - March 4, 2013 2:02 am

    Kumpletuhin na natin ang comedy. Ipadala ang Comelec doon sa Sabah. Ipahuli si Kiram dahil may election gun ban.

    Pero teka huwag siya paeescortan ng Army. Bakit? Kasi yung tatay ng AFP Chief ngayon, sa Patikul, Sulu trinaydor ng mga Tausug na MNLF diba? Personal choice pa naman itong si Bautista ni Noynoy ewan ko lang kung me amor kahit konti kay Kalbo yang mga Tausug. Magjihad man si Kiram laban sa Malaysia, walang tulong na mangyayari. Teka, hindi pala nakakatawa yun.

    (Ano, chi? Ang haba ng ruler ko akalain mong mahagip ko pa yung anggulong yun?)

  23. sai - March 4, 2013 3:42 am

    chi

    labo-labo na siguro kung dalhin pa nila sa Imperial Manila ang gulo no?

    sino ba dapat kausapin dyan? hindi lang naman si Sultan Kiram III ang nagsasabing sya ang sultan ng Sulu at North Borneo di ba? dapat magkasundo muna ang buong angkan ng Kiram bago sila gumawa ng aksyon na damay ang buong bansa.

    parang lumalabas kasi na ang mga side lang ni Kiram III ang binibigyan ng renta pero ang totoo hinahati pa to sa lahat ng mga Kiram. at alam natin na di sila magkakasundo.

    chi, kung sakaling maitaas nga ang renta, buong Sulu/Tawi-Tawi at pati na Lahad Datu sa Malaysia ba ang makikinabang dyan o ang mga Kiram lang na nakatira dun? ang lahat ng mga Tausug o iba pang tribo ng mga Muslim, makikinabang din ba? hindi ko na isasama ang buong Pilipinas dahil alam ko na may mga Tausug na aalma dyan :)

    dapat siguro hindi na isama ng mga Kiram ang isyu na maibalik sa kanila ang Sabah. financial compensation na lang. dahil sa totoo lang, sa tingin ko para sa mga Kiram, ang Sabah ay parang kanilang malaking hacienda tapos balewala lang ang karapatan ng mga taong matagal nang nakatira duon.

  24. sai - March 4, 2013 4:44 am

    teka nga pala, understandable kung na-misplace ang unang sulat. pero yung dalawa pano pinadala? personal delivery o postal office? alam naman natin na hindi epitome of reliability ang postal system natin di ba?

    ano ba ang pumasok sa mga kukote ng grupo ni Kiram at sino ang nagsulsol sa kanila na sumugod ng Sabah na may dalang armas para sila mapansin ng ating gobyerno?

    hindi ba pwedeng dito muna sa media natin nila dinulog ang kanilang hinaing? alam naman natin na maingay ang media natin di ba? ba’t di nila ginawa yun muna?

    parang ang laki ng lundag mula sa tatlong sulat na di naaksyunan (kung tutuusin dalawa lang talaga dahil yung isa eh mali ang timing ng pagpadala) sa pagsugod ng higit 100 na armadong katao sa Sabah.

    at please lang ha, wag nating idahilan na matagal na ang hinaing nila dahil sa mga nakaraang administrasyon na wala rin namang ginawa o nagawa eh di naman sila nanugod at nang hostage pa ngayon ng Malaysian officials di ba?

    pwedeng masagot lang ang tanong na “why now?” at wag bumato ng “why not now?” o “why only now?” dahil ang paraan na pinili ng grupo ni Kiram III ay mga buhay ang nalagas at patuloy na may malalagas.

    at saka buti sana kung isang brutal na diktador ang asta ng Malaysia sa mga Kiram, pwede pang itapat ang “why not now?” na sagot. kaso, kung tutuusin , pera lang naman talaga ang ugat nito. parang ang babaw na dahilan para buong Pilipinas hikayatin mo na makipaglaban sa Malaysia.

    at ginawa pa talagang pain ang $$$$billions na pwedeng mapunta sa Pilipinas pag naibalik sa mga Kiram ang Sabah no?

    pero di nababanggit kung ilan pa ang mawawalan ng buhay dahil sa naging aksyon ng mga Kiram.

    sa tingin ng mga Kiram, papayag ba ang mga taga-Sabah na mapasailalim sa kanilang pamamahala?

    mukhang hindi dahil kababasa ko lang na may mga villagers sa Sabah na pinatay ang isang ex-MNLF commander na nag-ala-Rambo din at nagsisigaw na sya raw ang pumatay nung Malaysian police.

    yari na pag lahat ng Pilipino na nanduon eh pagdiskitahan nila.

    pano yan. pag lumalala pa ang sitwasyon at magalit nang tuluyan ang mga taga-Sabah, malamang di na pwedeng gawing eskapohan ng mga rebeldeng Pilipino ang Sabah.

    mga random at pang-asar na tanong lang at obserbasyon.

  25. acibig - March 4, 2013 8:12 am

    sa mga bumoto sa kanya, dont complain

  26. LCsiao - March 4, 2013 11:12 am

    #17

    “he said it is better to have Filipinos fight each other than drag another country into the conflict.”

    May tawag diyan: TREASON

    Angkop na angkop na pantukoy sa mentalidad ng mga Dilawang nakaluklok sa puwesto ngayon.

  27. LCsiao - March 4, 2013 11:18 am

    #24

    Typical capitulationist mindset

  28. sai - March 4, 2013 1:22 pm

    pang-asar pa rin LCsiao :)

    hindi yan treason. ang tawag kapag nagpapatayan ang Pilipino laban sa kapwa Pilipino ay internal conflict.

    ngayon, pag maraming Pilipino at Malaysians na ang nagpapatayan (immediate worst case scenario), ang tawag dyan war.

    parehong sitwasyon ay masama pero alin ang mas malala?

    pwede namang naiwasan to kung hindi nanugod ang malaking grupo ng mga armadong taga-suporta nina Kiram di ba?

    capitulationist ba?

    so okay lang na makipagpatayan para lang sa pera? dahil eto naman talaga ang puno’t dulo ng hinaing ng mga Kiram — hindi sapat ang rentang ibinibigay sa kanila para sa Sabah.

    homeland ba? teka, hindi ba ang orihinal na may-ari nito ay ang Sultan ng Brunei? so ibig sabihin, malamang sa hindi, ay may mga taong nakatira na dito bago ito mairegalo sa Sultan ng Sulu.

    para sa mga iskolar na masinsing nag-aral sa kasong ito, matanong lang, tanggap ba at kinilala ng mga taong nakatira na sa Sabah nuon pa bago mapunta ito sa Sultan ng Sulu ang kapangyarihan ng Sultan ng Sulu?

    para kay chi :)

    oo, maraming naghihirap na mga Kiram.

    pero napakinabangan naman ng orihinal na Sultan ng Sulu ang Sabah di ba? ang upa nga dyan ang ginamit nyang pang-finance nang kanyang laban sa mga mananakop na Kastila.

    ngayon, maliban sa, aminin na natin, “lack of foresight” to put it mildly, ng Sultan ng Sulu noon at di nya nilagay sa agreement na dapat pwede nyang taasan ang renta kung kailangan ng sitwasyon; pwede rin namang sabihin na di ito nasali dahil iniisip nya na mababawi nya kaagad ang Sabah di ba?

    tanong ulit para sa mga iskolar na masinsing nag-aral ng kasaysayan nito, ano ang nangyari mula nung iparenta yan sa mga Briton na negosyante hanggang bago ang Sultanato ng Sulu ay naging Sulu, Philippines at hindi yan nabawi o binawi ng Sultan?

    at bakit pagpaparenta ng Sabah ang naging paraan ng Sultan ng Sulu nuon para makalakap ng malaking halaga para pang-finance sa kanyang gyera?

    wala bang isa sa kanilang angkan ang masasabing business-minded? hindi naman bahay at lupa yan na paupahan lang. ang laki ng Sabah. di ba sya nangolekta muna ng buwis o upa mula sa mga naninirahan sa Sabah nuon? at kung wala pang sapat na tao, ba’t di na lang partnership o di kaya nagpasweldo ng taong magpapatakbo ng kung anumang negosyo sa Sabah na di kailangan ibigay mo ang karapatan mo sa isang banyaga?

    nagtiwala ka sa isang banyaga? nuong kasagsagan ng pakikipaglaban mo sa mga imperyalistang banyaga?

    anyare?

  29. sai - March 4, 2013 2:54 pm

    hypothetical scenario

    ano kaya kung ipadala natin ang SWS survery dun sa Sabah at tanungin ang mga nandun kung ano ang kanilang opinyon sa isyung to?

    o di kaya yung si Sultan Kiram III at kanyang buong angkan pumunta mismo sa Sabah na walang dalang armas tapos pumunta sa gitna ng isang plaza, at magsisigaw through a loudspeaker habang iwinawasiwas ang lease agreement na yan at sabihin na kanila ang Sabah.

    ano sa tingin nyo ang mangyayari?

    iniimagine ko lang kasi nababasa ko ang mga post ng taga-Malaysia at taga-Sabah mismo at halos lahat sila nag-ge-german na sa sobrang galit.

    let’s bring it back to home, di ba may isang tao na nagsabing kanila daw ang buong Pilipinas at may pinakita pa na titulo na panahon pa ng mga Kastila?

    ano ang naisip natin nang malaman yan?

    malamang ganyan din ang naisip ng mga taga-Sabah nung una. bago sumugod ang mga Kiram.

  30. sai - March 4, 2013 4:54 pm

    natatawa talaga ako dun sa utak hacienda comment mo chi :)

    lahat naman yata sumasang-ayon na dapat may monetary compensation na karapat-dapat para sa mga Kiram.

    dito lang tayo nagkakaproblema pagdating na sa pagpipilit na maibalik sa mga Kiram at sa Pilipinas ang Sabah.

    sakaling mali si Superstar Nora Aunor at meron talagang himala at naibalik sa mga Kiram (at hindi sa buong tribo ng Tausug dahil hindi naman sila kasama sa binabayaran ng upa di ba?) at sa Pilipinas ang Sabah…

    malaki ang Sabah di ba? siguro may malalaking agricultural lands dyan.

    masyadong malaki para lang sa mga Kiram.

    pwede bang mapasailalim sa CARP yan?

    at kung pwede. sino ang maghahati-hati, ang mga nakatira duon mismo o kasama ang mga nakatira sa Sulu?

    at karagdagang pang-asar na tanong tungkol sa naghihirap na mga Kiram…

    mayaman sila dati di ba? kanila nga dati ang buong Sulu at North Borneo.

    ngayon, kasalanan ba ng ibang Pilipino kung karamihan sa kanila eh hindi marunong humawak ng pera at hindi nila napangalagaan at napalago ang yaman nila?

    inubos ba ng Sultan ng Sulu dati ang yaman nya para may magastos sa pakikibaka?

    nung may panganib na parating na ang mga mananakop, wala man lang syang naibaon na yaman? ginto’t pilak pa ata ang pera nun di ba?

    dapat ba buong bansa magbuwis ng maraming buhay para lang yumaman uli sila? dahil di naman sigurado na mapupunta sa mamamayan ang kita ng Sabah di ba? malamang kukurakotin lang yan.

    sila lang ba sa buong kasaysayan ng Pilipinas ang naagawan ng lupa? at nang di maibalik to, karamihan ba ng mga naagawan eh sumugod na may dalang armas sa mga nang-agaw sa kanila o nagsampa ng kaso sa korte?

    kung malugi si Henry Sy o si Zobel na ang mga kumpanya eh pinakikinabangan ng maraming Pilipino, dapat ba problemahin ng buong Pilipinas na maisalba ang mga negosyo nila? o sila dapat ang maghanap ng solusyon sa kanilang problema na sila naman ang may kagagawan?

    ngayon sasabihin ng iba dyan na magkaiba ang teritoryo at negosyo, pero yung teritoryo naging problema nga dahil ginawang negosyo at ngayon pinagtatalunan ang renta ng teritoryong to.

    o di naman kaya mag-aakusa na walang awa o walang puso o ano? capitulationist na naman?

    talaga? para sa ano ba ang magiging gyera dyan?

    renta/pera?

    buti sana kung buhay at kalayaan ang pinaglalaban dito hindi pangkabuhayan dahil hindi lang yan ang paraan para kumita ka ng pera o magkaroon ng pera. (sana naman walang magsabi dito na some of the Kirams were mainly banking on what they would get from Sabah kaya naging ganyan sila)

    at pag tuluyan nang nagkagulo, papano naman ang magiging hanap-buhay ng mga nakatira dyan?

    ayaw ni Misis Hanep-buhay nyan :)

  31. manuelbuencamino - March 4, 2013 5:23 pm

    Ellen,

    Ang katotohanan ay utak pulbura ang hakbang na ginawa ng mga kiram. Kaya naging madugo ang resulta,

    Nakiusap ang presidente at ang gobyerno ng malaysia na maghinaon sila kiram para makapagusap ng mapayapa. Ang sagot ng mga Kiram ay do or die, fight to the death kami.

    Bakit biglang naging biktima yun may hawak na baril na pumasok sa territoryo ng ibang bansa? Magkakaputukan ba kung walang baril?

    And now we hear reports of a crackdown on Filipinos in Sabah . That the unintended consequences of utak pulbura.

    Innocent bystanders yun mga tatamaan ng crackdown at madedeport. Nabubuhay at naghahanap buhay sila ng mapayapa sa Sabah. Ngayon dahil sa utak pulbura ng isang angkan sa Sulu magkakawindang-windang ang buhay nila, Hindi ba sila naisip ng mga Kiram?

    Ngayon magagalit ka kasi sinabi ng president ang katotohanan? Kelan ba dapat magsabi ng katotohanan ang presidente? Hahanap pa ba siya ng tamang tiempo para ipaalam ang katotohanan na walang mahihita sa mga desisyon at galaw na galing sa utak pulbura?

    The truth hurts but it makes us see clearly.

  32. MPRivera - March 4, 2013 6:43 pm

    “…………….teka, hindi ba ang orihinal na may-ari nito ay ang Sultan ng Brunei? so ibig sabihin, malamang sa hindi, ay may mga taong nakatira na dito bago ito mairegalo sa Sultan ng Sulu……”

    itinuro na ito noon pa sa social studies sa elementarya. ang sabah ay bahagi ng sultanate ng sulu na bahagi naman ng sri vijayan (o visayan empire) noong panahon ng mga datu at lakan mula sa borneo.

    hindi kailanman naging bahagi ng brunei ang sabah.

  33. Oblak - March 4, 2013 7:44 pm

    I agree kay MB sa #33. Ito ang mga consequences na dapat sinaiisip ng mga “lumusob” sa Sabah.

    Yung mahinahon na Princess Kiram lumabas na. Ang lumalabas, na delay ang pagbabayad ng increased rental na assets ng sultanate ang possibleng dahilan ng “paglusob” sa Sabah.

  34. chi - March 4, 2013 9:32 pm

    “Why can’t PNoy say ‘Come Home’ instead of ‘Surrender’” (title of this article)

    Pnoy obviously will never say this because he treats Kiram as dirt.

  35. chi - March 4, 2013 9:37 pm

    #32. Magno, korek ka dyan. A teacher friend of mine is almost finish with her book that chronicles the Srivijaya empire (o visayan empire).

  36. chi - March 4, 2013 9:41 pm

    tongue, nahagip ng ruler mo, hahaha!

    sai, ang makakasagot lang talaga ng lahat ng tanong natin ay kung maghaharap ng walang anumang sulsulan si Pnoy at ang claimants, isama na lahat ng nagsasabi na sila ang heirs. Actually, magpi-pinsan lahat sila kaya may karapatan na sabihing sila ang dapat may korona. Ang isyu lang ay kung sino ang acknowledge ng Ruma Bechara (council, at gobyerno ng Pinas.

  37. chi - March 4, 2013 9:48 pm

    #23. sai, kaya nga nuon (kay FVR yata panahon) ay may isinusulong na korporasyon nga na sabi ay in agreement daw with Malaysia para protektahan ang mga heirs (kasama na siguro ng financial, mawawala ba yun?) pero biglang nawala. Win win situation sana pero nawala bigla ang programa, I have no knowledge kung sino ang umatras.

  38. chi - March 4, 2013 9:56 pm

    #30. sai, talaga naman, di ba? Parang nag-uutos lang sa kanyang alipin si Pnoy. :)

    Nung panahon ng mga ascendants ng mga heirs ay trading lang uso kaya ng mag-offer ang Britain na “let” ay nabigla sila. :)

    Anyway, sa dami ng pinagdaanang kamay ng Sabah ay tingin ko talagang hindi na maibabalik yan sa mga heirs. Malaysia will hold on to it at all cost.

  39. sai - March 4, 2013 10:16 pm

    chi hahagipin ko uli ang ruler na yan :)

    ay talaga?

    parte ng Sulu Sultanate?

    so papano nangyari na yan ang ginawang regalo ng Sultan ng Brunei sa Sultan ng Sulu bilang pasasalamat kung sa umpisa pa lang ay parte na yan ng Sultanato ng Sulu?

    harbat lang ng Sultan ng Brunei ang Sabah?

  40. LCsiao - March 4, 2013 10:26 pm

    #28

    “ang tawag kapag nagpapatayan ang Pilipino laban sa kapwa Pilipino ay internal conflict.

    ngayon, pag maraming Pilipino at Malaysians na ang nagpapatayan (immediate worst case scenario), ang tawag dyan war.

    parehong sitwasyon ay masama pero alin ang mas malala?”

    Ay ang ganda ng lecture. Pero mukhang may di ka na-gets.

    Paano kaya magiging masama kung magsasanib puwersa ang kapwa Pilipino laban sa dayuhang kalaban?

    Ah…Pero para sa utak traydor, mas pipiliin pa niyang patayin o ipagkanuno ang kanyang kababayan imbes na ipaglaban ang kapakanan ng kanyang bansa at kapwa, gaya ng nagawa ng mga ninuno ni AbNoy.

    *************************

    “pwede namang naiwasan to kung hindi nanugod ang malaking grupo ng mga armadong taga-suporta nina Kiram di ba?”

    Puwede pa ngang maiwasan ang pagpunta doon ng grupong Tausug kung hindi lang nag-Noynoying sila AbNoy ukol sa Sabah claim ng Pilipinas.

  41. sai - March 4, 2013 10:32 pm

    eto pa

    ayon nga sa makabagong kasabihan, ang taong nagigipit, sa Bombay kumakapit.

    barter trade na kung barter trade, pero pag nangailangan ka ng pangtustos sa gyera mo laban sa mga Kastila, una mo bang lalapitan at pagkakatiwalaan ang isa ring puting banyagang imperyalista?

    o dun ka muna lalapit sa isang tao o pamilya na malaki ang utang na loob sa yo at matagal na ang inyong alyansa?

    tapos ang isang tao o pamilyang ito ay mayaman naman.

    ba’t di humingi ng tulong ang Sultan ng Sulu sa Sultan ng Brunei?

    hindi naman nya hihingiin na itaya ng Sultan ng Brunei ang buhay nya o ng pamilya nya o ng nasasakupan nya di ba?

    5300 piraso na ginto lang. pwedeng gawing collateral kahit kalahati lang ng Sabah :)

    anong nangyari at di sya lumapit sa Sultan ng Brunei?

    di na sila friends?

    sa paglipas ng panahon ba ay yung dating malapit na magkaalyado ay di na mag-em-yu?

    anyare?

    wag nyong sabihin na sa kabila ng banta ng pananakop ng mga Kastila na di lang buhay mo at buhay ng mga taong mahalaga sa yo ang nanganganib kundi ang buo mo nang pagkatao, kung sino ka at kung ano ka…

    eh di mo makain ang malaking piraso ng pritong manok at umutang sa taong matagal mo nang ka-close.

  42. sai - March 4, 2013 10:51 pm

    LCsiao

    wag kang high blood. di ka naman mapapartehan ng renta eh. para sa mga Kiram lang yan (liban na lang kung Kiram ka nga) :)

    mukhang ikaw ang marami ang di na-gets sa comments ko :)

    sinabi ko ba na di ipaglaban ang karapatan ng mga Kiram?

    di naman di ba?

    sabi ko lang na sa kasalukuyang sitwasyon ngayon at payag din naman ang mga Kiram dito, ang magagawa lang ay magbayad ng tamang renta para sa Sabah.

    at di dapat sa armadong paraan ang magiging aksyon mo.

    may paki ka sa mga Kiram pero wala kang pakialam sa buhay ng mas nakararaming Pilipino, ganun ba yun?

    bilib naman ako sa quantum leap ng conclusion mo.

    definition lang yun ng internal conflict at war yun.

    wala akong sinabi na dapat magpatayan na lang ang kapwa Pilipino o di kaya makipagpatayan ang mga Pilipino sa mga Malaysians.

    inciting to war na yan. ayoko ng digmaan. kaya nga Pastafarian ako eh, hindi Muslim o Kristiyano :)

    at talagang Sabah claim ng Pilipinas pa talaga no?

    ipagpipilitan talaga na parte yan ng Pilipinas?

    ano ang gagawin mo sa tatlong milyong katao na nakatira sa Sabah? ano sila? mga tuod? display? walang mga buhay? walang isip? walang karapatang pumili kung saan nila gustong mapabilang?

    ganun ba dapat tratuhin sila sa isang mundo ngayon na karamihan sa mga tao eh demokrasya ang ipinaglalaban?

    okay, LCsiao, ready, aim, fire….
    :)

  43. vic - March 4, 2013 11:00 pm

    PNoy is being Honest in dealing with the Situaion. Coming Home without Surrendering will bring back the issue before the incident started and One can not just take back what already had happened. It must be dealt with one way or the other. The “Royal Army” if the Sultanate is now at War with the Malaysia Authorities. The are Filipino Citizens and under the protection of the Phl Govt… And the only option open to the Govt at this crucial time is for them to Surrender Peacefully to avoid Bloodsheed. The Govt is not about to take a risk of going to war with a Friendly country for the sake of its Citizens ARMED incursion of another Country No Matter what ther Reasons and Purposes Might Be. It is Either Surrender or Fight your Own WAR. And mourn your own deaths.

  44. sai - March 4, 2013 11:03 pm

    enter Princess Merriam Kiram or not a princess according to the daughter of Sultan Kiram III.

    kung totoo ang sinasabi nya na malapit nang magkaroon ng kasunduan sa pagitan ng mga tagapagmana ng Sultanato ng Sulu at ng Malaysia at nagulo lang daw dahil sa pakikialam ng ibang mga politiko na nang impluwensya kay Sultan Kiram III…

    paki-imbestigahan Ellen kung sino-sino ang mga politikong ito.

    gusto kong malaman kung sino-sino ang mga kampon ng KADILIMAN na to na nang sulsol kay Sultan Kiram III kaya etong si Sultan eh bigla na lang umepal sa eksena at nag Gangnam Style.

  45. saxnviolins - March 4, 2013 11:04 pm

    Can there be a sovereign over a territory (its laws govern there), while at the same time said sovereign recognizes ownership by another?

    Yes.

    Tunghayan ang Hong Kong, and the Brits. There was a 99 year lease. A return was made in 1999.

    So fine. Malaysia na ang sovereign, with help from the Brits. But the proprietary rights of the Sultanate may still be pursued.

    Will post later. Marami lang kasing deadline ngayon.

  46. sai - March 4, 2013 11:23 pm

    tama ka sax. pwede nga yan.

    pero remember, the Hong Kong residents were very much aware that eventually they will be handed back to China. and even then, may nagprotesta pa rin.

    dito parang gulatan ang nangyari.

    isa pa, the Brits were, in a way, still viewed as the colonial power so the Hong Kong residents never thought they were British to begin with.

    iba ang kaso ng mga Sabahans. they view themselves as Sabahans first and Malaysian second.

    plus, bumuboto sila sa Malaysian elections.

    did the Hong Kong residents had an MP in the British Parliament while at the same time had their own officials?

    ano sa tingin mo ang mga dapat balansehin pag yan ngang model ang sundin sa Sabah? ang mga pagkakapareho at pagkakaiba?

    papayag naman kaya dito ang mga taga-Sabah?

  47. LCsiao - March 4, 2013 11:27 pm

    #42

    Wow naman. “Inciting to war.” Sounds family ah. Taga-Palasyo ka ba?

    Anyway, tungkol sa totoong motibo, wala akong magagawa kung pera-pera lang ang tingin mo diyan. Kasi yung appreciation sa bagay na yan would be a reflection of one’s mindset, di ba?

    Sa usapin naman ng nakararaming Pilipinong nasa Sabah, documented man o hindi, na kaugnay ng pagpunta doon ng grupo ni Kiram, paano ba naman ito naging either-or issue? Kung mamaltratuhin sila ng Malaysian gov’t dahil dito, base sa iyong pakiwari, sina Kiram lang ang dapat sisihin dito? Di ba’t Malaysian authorities pa rin ang maituturing na abusers? Ano yan, Stockholm Syndrome?

    Ayan ha. May concern naman akong ipinakita sa isang segment ng Sabahan population. Baka kasi i-career mo na ang pagiging bleeding heart para sa kanila.

    Cge, sai, gulong na :-)

  48. sai - March 4, 2013 11:45 pm

    masakit gumulong lundag pwede pa….lol :)

    ang bait mo naman, isang segment lang talaga. ba’t di mo lahatin na lang ang buong Sabah population? :)

    tsaka hindi lang naman ang populasyon sa Sabah ang iniisip ko dito no. iniisip ko rin ang mga Tausug na sumusuporta sa mga Kiram dahil pinangakuan sila ng magandang buhay sa Sabah.

    sabihin na natin na kahit handa sila makipagpatayan para lang kay Sultan Kiram III, ang tanong, dapat ba nating hayaan na mangyari ito?

    kung may nakikita kang isang tao na gustong lumundag sa itaas ng gusali, itutulak mo ba, hahayaan na lang o pipigilan mo?

    ay talaga? you mean to say na taga-Palasyo lang ang may karapatan na gumamit ng phrase na yun? nahiya naman ako. ayoko ko kasing maakusahan na Sinotto ko lang yun. may copyright ba yun o ipr? sino ba sa kanila ang sumambit nun? paki-pangalanan nga :)

  49. sai - March 4, 2013 11:56 pm

    actually LCsiao, hindi lang naman reflection nang mindset yan eh. dahil yan din ang palaging nasasambit ng mga Kiram at ng tagapagsalita nila.

    ang renta…ang renta…ang renta

    kahit na yung umpisa ay homeland ang banggitin, di magtatagal nababanggit pa rin ang renta kasama ng homeland.

    sa tingin mo, pag tinaasan ang renta sa Sabah sa amount na gusto ng mga Kiram, titigil ba sila o ipagpapatuloy pa rin ang laban at sasabihin naman na ayaw na namin paupahan yan at ibalik nyo na ang pamamahala sa min nyan?

  50. chi - March 5, 2013 1:13 am

    #39. sai, swak mo na harbat lang ng Sultan ng Brunei ang Sabah/North Borneo.

    Hinati sa dalawa, ang isa ay ipinamana sa pamilya ng haring Bolkiah na pinsan ng mga Kiram at lahat ng heirs; ang kalahati naman ay sa mga ninuno ng Kiram, etc. Nakakainggit nga naman noh? Puro gold yata mga cars ng Borneo heirs tapos sina Kiram, etc. kamote lang kinakain? I agree with you, engots ang mga ninuno nila. :)

  51. chi - March 5, 2013 1:17 am

    #45. atty sax, dalian mo…matagal ko ng hinihintay views mo dito. :)

  52. chi - March 5, 2013 2:01 am

    SULTAN’S HEIRS: This is not the full and final word on it, but here are some notes from a backgrounder written by Amina Rasul, president of the Philippine Center for Islam and Democracy and board member of the Mindanao Development Authority. She writes:

    “The legally recognized owners — members of Sulu royalty and nobility — were identified in the 1939 ruling of Chief Justice C. F. C. Macaskie of the High Court of North Borneo: Dayang-Dayang (Princess) Hadji Piandao was acknowledged as the major shareholder with 3/8 share.

    “Princess Tarhata Kiram and Princess Sakinur-In Kiram were to each have a 3/16 share. The six other heirs who went to Macaskie’s court were awarded 1/24 share apiece: Mora Napsa, Sultan Esmail Kiram, Datu Punjungan, Sitti Mariam, Sitti Jahara and Sitti Rada.

    “Princess Denchurain acknowledged the nine heirs specified in the Macaskie decision as the true heirs of Sabah.

    “All the principal heirs have died. As of today, there are probably a thousand heirs of the heirs. Dayang-Dayang Hadji Piandao Kiram, an only child, was childless. Therefore her cousins, nieces and nephews will divide her 3/8 share.

    “Among her cousins was my grandmother, Hadja Salma, wife of Sen. Hadji Butu. Thus, my father, the late Ambassador Abraham Rasul, and his siblings and cousins are heirs. Misuari’s wives (Desdemona and Ruayda), are heirs. Jamalul III and Esmail are the children of Datu Punjungan.” – Federico D. Pascual, Jr. http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2013/03/05/915909/sultan-harassed-both-sabah-and-manila

  53. chijap - March 5, 2013 7:52 am

    While I sincerely sympathize with the wants and goals of the Kiram family, i think Aquino’s point weighs heavier.

    That there are a few hundred thousand Filipinos and Malaysians now displaced by this fighting.

    Yes, Aquino can say, hoy mga Malaysians, you can’t kill our citizens. We will retaliate. But would that be smarter?

    Remember, there was peace in Sabah. We, as represented by Kiram’s decision and his 200 men with arms will stay in Sabah until issue is resolved.

    And we expect Malaysia not to retaliate and say, oo sige pakikinggan namin kayo?

    How do we resolve Sabah? Have we really lost our chance? That to me is no longer an issue. In fact, we lost pogi points by stirring the hornets nest, let me correct it, adding more hornets to the nest.

    Knowing and keeping that in mind, I think Aquino has said things as polite and honest as he could be. Of course others still feel otherwise.

    I also think Kiram (if his goal is as sincere as what he says) can be the better man and say, ok, we are at fault, let us go back. (Or now that they have used arms and killed some Malaysian policemen, have to go thru the process which is to surrender).

    While it does not sound “nationalistic,” I think to say please give up or surrender versus simply come home is more appropriate given the outcome of Kiram’s action.

    Lets spank our kids for doing the impulsive and emotional thing. And that we are not to consent to their uneducated action.

    You simply don’t go sit on an area and “reclaim it.”

    We don’t want to be like Argentina when they tried taking back the Falkland Island by force.

    We don’t want to be like China which appears bullying neighbors just for a piece of rock.

    Those countries, as we are now, are looking to be the bad guys in the drama.

    If Kiram has issues, he should have raised it correctly, to our government. Aquino acknowledge failure to answer his grievances promptly and he said he would now focus on this but please as leader recall your men for their own safety. Kiram’s response? No. Too late.

    Do i buy the conspiracy theory (including that of disrupting the peace process)? Not just yet, but what i buy is that Kiram’s action will not resort to peace. But simply more fighting and war, no matter how you look at it or justify it.

  54. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 9:06 am

    Hindi raw ito joke. Ito ay tunay na pangyayari daw:

    Sa Shoptalk noong Lunes:

    Tinanong ni Pia Hontiveros si Jamalul Kiram III, kandidato ng administrasyon para senador kung paano siya nasali. Sabi niya, “I volunteered.”

    Tinanong ni Pia, paano at kailan. Hindi na ngayon malaman ni Kiram kung ano ang sagot. Sabi niya, “I did not volunteer.”

    Sabi ni Pia, kasasabi lang ninyo na nag-volunteer kayo. Sabi ni Kiram na parang ina-antok, “Okay I said I did, but I’m taking it back.

    Ito ay hango mula dito…

    http://www.ellentordesillas.com/2007/02/15/hindi-ito-joke/

  55. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 9:10 am

    “sa mga bumoto sa kanya, dont complain”

    - acibig – March 4, 2013 8:12 am

    Di ko siya binoto, but I’m not complaining.

  56. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 9:14 am

    In brief, the Sultan of Sulu claims ownership, not sovereignty, over a huge tract of land called Sabah.

    http://opinion.inquirer.net/47997/understanding-the-sabah-dispute

  57. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 9:18 am

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1370&dat=19890408&id=HqclAAAAIBAJ&sjid=kQsEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2530,1334482

    Manila Standard
    April 8, 1989

    Kiram vs. Kiram: Sabah claim muddled

    By Alito Malinao

    Two factions, both claiming direct lineage to the late Sultan of Sulu, Muhammad Esmail Kiram, emerged yesterday with conflicting stands on the Philippine claim over Sabah.

    Sultan Jamalul Kiram, III, who said that he is the “reigning” Sultan of Sulu, told newsmen in a press conference that the Sultanate has revoked the authority given to the Philippine government to act on its behalf in working for the recovery of North Borneo.

    Kiram said that a resolution adopted by the Sultanate’s Ruma Bechara (Cabinet) on Feb. 12, 1989 mandated the Sultanate to pursue on its own claim over North Borneo “through all available means.” The latest resolution, according to Kiram revoked another resolution dated Aug. 29, 1962 which gave the government the right to assert sovereignty over North Borneo. North Borneo includes the present Malaysian state of Sabah.

    Also yesterday, in another forum, Denchurain Kiram, who also said that she is the “reigning queen” f the Sultanate, assured Philippine officials that the heirs of the late Sultan have abandoned their sovereignty claim over Sabah and would instead settle for their proprietary rights.

    Madame Kiram said that “in the interest of closer relationship and better understanding between the Philippines and Malaysia,” the Philippine claim over Sabah should not be pursued.

    Madame Kiram said that she is the oldest living heir of the late Sultan, adding that she is not aware of the existence of any present Sultan of Sulu, apparently referring to Jamalul Kiram, III.

    Philippine officials led by President Aquino and Foreign Affairs Secretary Raul S. Manglapus have said that relations with Malaysia would never be normalized unless the Philippines officially drops its claim over Sabah.

  58. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 9:21 am

    Arroyo pledges to help Sabah claimants
    Tuesday, 24 September, 2002, 12:00am
    Raissa Robles in Manila

    During the lunch, Mrs Arroyo learned that the special power-of-attorney granted by the sultanate to the Philippine government to pursue the sovereignty rights over Sabah expired in 1982.

    http://www.scmp.com/article/392296/arroyo-pledges-help-sabah-claimants

  59. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 9:28 am

    Karugtong ng #57…

    Madam Kiram said that the so-called resolution revoking the authority given to the Philippine government on pursuing the claim “would achieve nothing except to complicate matters further and make it more difficult to pursue our propriety rights to Sabah.”

    But Jamalul Kiram said that copies of the Sultanate’s resolution saying that it has now assumed sovereignty over Sabah and other territories of the old Sultanate were already sent to the United Nations, foreign governments and the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC).

    When asked if the Sultanate would resort to the use of force in order to pursue its claim, Kiram said, “Yes, if there is no alternative.”

    Kiram said that as of now it has no armed forces of its own but added that it could easily mobilize about a million people in Sulu and Basilan in time of war. He said that the old Sultanate includes Sabah, Palawan, Basilan, Tawi-Tawi, Sulu and the Zamboanga peninsula.

  60. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 9:33 am

    Sine Totoo…

    “SABAH: ANG BAGONG AMERIKA?”

    http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/127676/publicaffairs/sine-totoo-presents-vicky-morales-sabah-ang-bagong-amerika

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgI_282cK-k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

  61. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 9:35 am

    Ang mga karugtong ng Sine Totoo…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE_CS5o6htA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDiGraRMCxs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f_kqdxQEXo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

  62. chi - March 5, 2013 10:33 am

    SALONGA EXPLAINS SABAH CLAIM
    http://globalnation.inquirer.net/66739/salonga-explains-sabah-claim

    This is a thorough and enlightening read.

  63. LCsiao - March 5, 2013 10:44 am

    Here’s the rejoinder of the Phil Sabah Claim Forum re Mr. Baron Travel’s PDI piece:

    I beg to disagree with Mr Artemio V Panganiban!

    Understanding the Sabah dispute by By Artemio V. Panganiban for the Philippine Daily Inquirer opinion.inquirer.net
    Mr Panganiban’s foreword to his article: To understand (1) the claim of the Sultan of Sulu over Sabah, (2) the standoff in Lahad Datu town in Sabah, (3) the stand-down admonition of President Aquino directing the followers of Sultan Jamalul Kiram III led by his brother Datu Raja Muda Agbimuddin Kiram to withdraw and return peacefully to th…
    http://opinion.inquirer.net/47997/understanding-the-sabah-dispute

    I don’t quite agree with the simplistic exposé of facts by Mr Panganiban. The good Mr Panganiban’s repertory of facts is heavily incomplete (perhaps for want of space)… To begin with, he went from British North Borneo Company signing the lease in 1878 (which had not been given charter rights by the Crown) with the Sultanate Company and then from there, the same company ceding the lease to Malaysia presumably in 1963 when Malaysia was formed which is simply not true…

    It was not as simple as that. Besides, the British North Borneo Company had ceased to the exist by the time Malaysia was formed in 1963. Mr Panganiban must check his facts because treachery and violations of contractual obligations were involved in the transfer of lease which have become some of the bases of the current conflict.

    Also, there were other actors implicated in the “containment” of Sabah in between or even after the British North Borneo ceased to exist. A good reading of the contract of lease would be necessary too, i.e., restrictive clause as follows: “The abovementioned territories are from today truly leased to Gustavus Baron de Overbeck and to Alfred Dent, Esquire, as already said, together with their heirs, their associates (company) and powers hereby leased shall not be transferred to another nation, or company of other nationality, without the consent of His Majesty’s Government.” This was violated.

    I do understand what Mr Panganiban is saying about the de facto jurisdiction of today’s Malaysia over Sabah, i.e., armed owners of the land coming to take it back but his exposé is an amalgamation of short-circuited facts therefore not easily credible.

    And since I am tired of explaining the history of Sabah lease etc to supposed highly learned men, I would rather they dig up facts about North Borneo (Sabah), themselves.

    I recommend the Jovito Salonga Journal: http://jovitosalongajournals.blogspot.com/2012_02_01_archive.html

    ~~ Admin AdB, Philippine Sabah Claim Forum 02 March 2013

  64. xman - March 5, 2013 12:01 pm

    “The revelation that Sulu Sultan Jamalul Kiram 3rd sent a letter to the Office of the President requesting inclusion in the peace talks with the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) is the key piece of evidence that exposes the conspiracy between the Aquino administration of the Philippines and the government of Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak.”

    Taken from Showbiz Government:
    http://www.manilatimes.net/index.php/business/business-columnist/42742-the-sabah-standoff-s-grim-implications

  65. xman - March 5, 2013 12:27 pm

    Sabah belongs to the Philippines
    (Taken from Showbiz Government)

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=516372651735510&set=vb.215599525123259&type=2&theater

  66. sai - March 5, 2013 4:08 pm

    ellen, heto ang iniisip ko na magiging takbo ng pag-uusap sa pagitan ng mga emisaryo ng gobyerno at ng mga Kiram —

    emisary: “come home”

    Kiram (titingnan ng masama si emisaryo): “we are home. Sabah is ours.”

    try ulit si emisaryo: “come home to the Philippines”

    Kiram: “Sabah is ours. we are Filipinos. so Sabah is part of the Philippines”

    emisaryo (naiinis na): “come home to Sulu”

    Kiram: “Sabah is ours. it is part of the Sulu Sultanate”

    nganga si emisaryo

    :)

  67. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 7:35 pm

    Naipaliwanag na rin ‘yan ni Prof. Harry Roque noong Sabado sa DZMM (“Pasado 630 Sabado”).

    Ito ang ilan sa nilalaman ng kaniyang tinuran…

    Ibinunyag naman ni Roque na hindi lamang ang Sultanato ng Sulu ang umaangkin sa Sabah.

    “Ang katotohanan po, hindi lamang ang Sultanate of Sulu ang umaangkin sa Sabah na ‘yan, dahil noong kapanahunan ni Presidente Diosdado Macapagal, itong mga Kiram po ay in-assign ang kanilang karapatan dito sa Sabah sa pamahalaan ng Pilipinas at tinanggap naman ng pamahalaan.”

    Suportado aniya ito ng kasulatan na pirmado ng mga sangkot na panig. “Kaya ang ibig sabihin po, hindi lang po ito claim ng Sultanate of Sulu, [kaya] claim po ito ng Pilipinas.”

    Ayon sa isinulat na Philippine claim sa Sabah ni dating Senador Jovito Salonga, may dalawang basehan sa pag-angkin:

    1. ang pagbigay ng Sultanate of Brunei ng Sabah sa Sultanate of Sulu, at
    2. pagpapaupa sa Dent at Baron von Overbeck (kumpanya) ng Sultanate of Sulu.

    Malinaw aniyang pagpapaupa at hindi bentahan ang pinasok na kasunduan ng sultanato at isang pribadong kumpanya (North Borneo Trading Company).

    Ang lumalabas aniya mula nang makalaya sa Britanya ang Malaysia, tila ipinalagay na nito na sa kanila ang Sabah (North Borneo).

    Ngunit ayon kay Salonga, hindi ang Britanya ang pumasok sa kontrata kundi isang pribadong kumpanya na kinilala mismo ng matataas na opisyal ng Britanya ngayon na hindi maaaring magkaroon ng soberanya sa naturang lupain.

    Noong magkaroon ng kasunduan si Pangulong Diosdado Macapagal at Sulu Sultanate, nagkaroon ng “full assignment of rights.” Ibig sabihin malinaw na hindi na ang Sultanate of Sulu ang may-ari ng Sabah.

    Pilipinas aniya ang may-ari ng Sabah base sa Saligang Batas noong 1935 at 1987 kung saan sakop ng bansa ang Sabah.

    “Ang pormal na summation ng ating claim sa Sabah ay isinulat ni (dating senador) Jovito Salonga at ‘yan naman po ay ipinasok sa Saligang Batas noong 1935 at 1987,” paliwanag ni Roque.

    Halaw ang nasa itaas mula dito…

    http://dzmm.abs-cbnnews.com/news/National/Pagdulog_sa_Int'l_Court_of_Justice_ng_Sabah_issue,_posibleng_katigan_ng_Malaysia_-_lawyer.html

  68. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 7:36 pm

    Prof. Harry Roque has a book…

    Salonga speaks on the claim…as contained in the book:

    http://harryroque.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/statement-of-then-congressman-jovito-r-salonga.pdf

  69. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 7:38 pm

    A legal hurdle probably…but not impossible…

    Prof. Harry Roque said Philippine documents to support the Sabah claim got BURNED, especially about the Lease of Sabah to Malaysia (not transfer of ownership). He relies on Malaysian documents which he hopes will surface when the case is filed with the ICJ. Those were the same documents Malaysia had provided the ICJ with her territorial dispute against Indonesia. (Live interview on “Pasada 630 Sabado” on March 2, 2013)

    I believe the DOJ is gearing up to finally go to the ICJ for the settlement of the issue.

  70. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 7:41 pm

    A legal hurdle…MOST LIKELY…

    As pointed out by manuelbuencamino, self-determination trumps historical claim.

    ICJ has spoken before. Judge Franck has his separate concurring opinion.

    (Links posted in raissaroblesdotcom are again provided below this comment…awaiting moderation.)

  71. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 7:42 pm

    Relevant article and ICJ files on Sabah claim:

    http://alpha.propinoy.net/2013/02/27/its-about-self-determination-not-historic-title/

    http://www.mpil.de/ww/en/pub/research/details/publications/institute/wcd.cfm?fuseaction_wcd=aktdat&aktdat=201010200400.cfm

    http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/102/7712.pdf

  72. baycas2 - March 5, 2013 7:54 pm

    ‘Ika nga ng dalubhasa…

    “Know thy enemy.”

    This is the Malaysian point of view prior to the October 2001 ICJ Decision…

    http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/102/10809.pdf?PHPSESSID=5c19dbe8e80c861d3384398fb1043fca

  73. LCsiao - March 5, 2013 8:55 pm

    #64

    xman, tikom nga ang bibig ng MILF. Sabi ni Iqbal, bilang kanilang “standing policy,” di raw sila mag-i-isyu ng kahit na anong komento tungkol sa Phil Sabah claim.

  74. LCsiao - March 5, 2013 8:58 pm

    #68

    “Noong magkaroon ng kasunduan si Pangulong Diosdado Macapagal at Sulu Sultanate, nagkaroon ng ‘full assignment of rights.’ Ibig sabihin malinaw na hindi na ang Sultanate of Sulu ang may-ari ng Sabah.” (Harry Roque)

    Full assignment of sovereign rights lang malamang ang tinutukoy niya. Nabasa ko kasi na w/o prejudice ang assignment na ito sa proprietary rights ng heirs ng sultanato.

  75. chi - March 6, 2013 12:12 am

    bay, sakit na mata ko sa kababasa sa link mo, thanks. :)

    Anyway, dapat magkulong sa kwarto si Pnoy with Sen. Salonga and other dalubhasa sa Sabah issue, high time to learn. Wala dapat sina Lacierda, de Lima, Purisima, Valte, etc palpak sa kanyang tabi.

  76. chi - March 6, 2013 12:16 am

    Agree sa #75 observation ni LCsiao as to the sovereignty rights.

  77. baycas2 - March 6, 2013 4:38 am

    Malaysia will just repeat what she said in the ICJ link I supplied in the Know-thy-Enemy comment I gave.

    Overcoming Malaysia’s arguments will persuade the Court to side with the Philippines, that is, if this Philippine Sabah claim will get to see the light of day in the ICJ.

    I pray and hope, still, that the ICJ will eventually settle the issue.

    However, the burnt documents (according to Prof. Harry Roque) which provided us without proof of our claim and the contemporary International Law thinking that self-determination (UN-sanctioned Sabahan referendum in 1963) negates even true historical claims are legal hurdles the Philippines must contend with.

    —–

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1370&dat=19890418&id=KKclAAAAIBAJ&sjid=kQsEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3446,3090830

    Again, pragmatism versus idealism is pitted against each other.

    I believe Tita Cory and former DFA head Raul Manglapus already saw the “equation” before in their decision to drop the Sabah claim. The HOR then realized it too. The Senate then, I believe, was the stumbling block…

    Letting the Sabah claim, that the present Constitution allows, remain in the back burner…much the same way as the fate of the constitutionally-provided anti-political dynasty…

  78. Jake Las Pinas - March 6, 2013 9:51 am

    Was the sultanate invited to this referendum? Were they informed that there was going to be a referendum? No consultation with the owners? I heard the documents were lost or stolen in England.

  79. TonGuE-tWisTeD - March 6, 2013 12:05 pm

    I believe Tita Cory and former DFA head Raul Manglapus already saw the “equation” before in their decision to drop the Sabah claim. The HOR then realized it too. The Senate then, I believe, was the stumbling block…

    There is something much more deeper than what we are seeing on the surface. To me, the Cojuangco and Aquino clans have been consistently hostile, at best, antagonistic, to any Filipino claim to Sabah. Starting with Ninoy’s father, then Sen. Sumulong’s anti reclamation privy speech, Ninoy’s ratting on Merdeka, Cory’s constitutional default, now Noynoy’s pro-Malaysian stance. They are consistent, right?

    The question is, why o why?

  80. TonGuE-tWisTeD - March 6, 2013 12:09 pm

    Meron pa pala, Si Tingting. Officially a Tarlaquena who needs to explain why she is too involved in issues pertaining to the Muslim in the south.

  81. TonGuE-tWisTeD - March 6, 2013 12:16 pm

    Meron pa pala uli, si Uncle Danding nga pala has bought Esso/Exxon-Mobil in Malaysia and some 200 gas stations in Malaysia are currently being rebranded as Petron.

    Of course there’s Uncle Tonyboy who is JV partner of the Malaysians in Air Asia.

    Guess who owns huge palm oil factories in Sabah?

    Now those who doubt Kiram and proclaim all these is just pera-pera lang is absofuckinglutely correct!

  82. LCsiao - March 6, 2013 2:11 pm

    #81

    “Meron pa pala, Si Tingting. Officially a Tarlaquena who needs to explain why she is too involved in issues pertaining to the Muslim in the south.”

    The birds and the bees, perhaps? ;-)

  83. baycas2 - March 6, 2013 4:27 pm

    Swell revelations you’ve made. Thanks.

    We have got to help the Kirams and in the process get back our sovereignty as well.

    Please broadcast those revelations…pera-pera lang pala sa mga Aquino-Cojuangco ito.

    Also, The ICJ is the way to go…

    @TonGue and @LC, please start your counter-arguments to Malaysian’s point of view here:

    http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/102/10809.pdf?PHPSESSID=5c19dbe8e80c861d3384398fb1043fca

    @Jake, please start discrediting the 1963 Sabahan referendum and the ICJ as contained in the Court’s decision here:

    http://www.mpil.de/ww/en/pub/research/details/publications/institute/wcd.cfm?fuseaction_wcd=aktdat&aktdat=201010200400.cfm

    And here:

    http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/102/7712.pdf

    In the meantime, I’ll wait for the legal opinion of saxnviolins.

    Thanks in advance!

  84. baycas2 - March 6, 2013 4:30 pm

    While waiting for my comment to be uploaded…

    Swell revelations you’ve made. Thanks.

    We have got to help the Kirams and in the process get back our sovereignty as well.

    Please broadcast those revelations…pera-pera lang pala sa mga Aquino-Cojuangco ito.

    Also, The ICJ is the way to go…

    @TonGue and @LC, please start your counter-arguments to Malaysian’s point of view here:

    icj-cij.org/docket/files/102/10809.pdf?PHPSESSID=5c19dbe8e80c861d3384398fb1043fca

    @Jake, please start discrediting the 1963 Sabahan referendum and the ICJ as contained in the Court’s decision here:

    mpil.de/ww/en/pub/research/details/publications/institute/wcd.cfm?fuseaction_wcd=aktdat&aktdat=201010200400.cfm

    And here:

    icj-cij.org/docket/files/102/7712.pdf

    In the meantime, I’ll wait for the legal opinion of saxnviolins.

    Thanks in advance!

  85. chi - March 6, 2013 10:01 pm

    #80,81,82. tongue, tenkyu very big. That konek nags my brain but could not find the thread. Sabi ko na at lalabas din e!

  86. chi - March 6, 2013 10:09 pm

    tongue, ilagay ko sa current post ha, haba na kasi dito hindi mabasa ng iba.

  87. baycas2 - March 6, 2013 10:41 pm

    @chi,

    Better start the cheering squad condoning irregular process and armed conflict…please.

  88. baycas2 - March 6, 2013 11:17 pm

    @chi,

    Perhaps you can cheer with your princess too…

    http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/photo/33470/sultan-s-daughter-feeds-media-fake-image-of-malaysian-casualties

  89. Ellen - March 7, 2013 12:56 am

    David Yu Santos’ post in Facebook on that fake photo. David Santos is a TV reporter:

    This is how I understand how that photo came to be. But I can be corrected by those who were there, too.

    That tablet she’s holding belongs to a journalist. On Sunday afternoon, while journalists were inside the Kiram’s home and were waiting for news from Sabah to trickle in, Princess Jacel sat beside a group of media men and chatted with them.

    Then one of the journalists showed that photo to her. They began discussing about the photo and apparently, she made comments about it. She was told the photo was posted online. Initially, it was thought that the ‘victims’ were Sultan’s men.

    A TV reporter (not me, hehe) was asking for the website where the photo was lifted but no one cared to answer. The Princess, while looking at the photo, caught the attention of photojournalists who were also there. They immediately took photos of her holding the tablet. The photogs, around 5-6 of them inside that small space in the sala, swarmed and cajoled her to show it to them so they can shoot photos. “Princess, pakita nyo po sa amin,” one photog exclaimed.

    In fairness to Princess Jacel, I overheard her saying “Teka muna, i-check muna natin kung mga Royal Army talaga ito.” At one point, someone in the group speculated that the ‘victims’ could be members of the Malaysian forces ‘kasi puro taga ang sugat nila.’

    Then Princess Jacel stood up to talk to her uncle and designated spokesman of the family, Abraham Idjirani, who was having his lunch in the dining room. Di ko na narinig kung ano napag-usapan nila ni Mr Idjirani and how this ‘controversial photo’ was eventually taken.

  90. chi - March 7, 2013 1:17 am

    bay, I am not for any heirs/claimants here as I was saying all the time that their are all legal so all of them have the right to claim, of course following the process.

    The Kirams unfortunately chose to go to Sabah armed, and that is wrong. But my point is instead of just threats, Pnoy might have at least consider sit down with the heirs himself and discuss while the ‘invasion’ was going on.

    #88 at least was there to tell a story albeit not complete.

  91. TonGuE-tWisTeD - March 8, 2013 12:54 pm

    baycas,

    Mga negosyante ang nakapaligid sa akin, natural ang sinisilip dito yung point of view ng pera. Di ko inimbento yang mga negosyo ng Kamag-anak, Inc. Meron sigurong data niyan online. Magaling ka diyan.

    Pabayaan ko na lang silang isort-out ang problema. Magagaling sila, isipin mo si De Lima pag-aaralan in a few days yung pinagdebatehan ng mga magigiting na Senador Salonga, Tolentino, Padilla, et al sa mahabang panahon?

    Ano palagay mo ang resulta niyan? Parang tinanong mo kung bakit naextend si Puno at hindi man lang naparusahan si Lim.

    Pang-comedy lang talaga. Haaay.

  92. TonGuE-tWisTeD - March 8, 2013 3:14 pm

    Should you insist, however, I paste here this arguments which are not mine but I totally agree with.

    Our claim is mainly based on the following propositions: that Overbeck and Dent, not being sovereign entities nor representing sovereign entities, could not and did not acquire dominion over North Borneo; that on the basis of authoritative British and Spanish documents, the British North Borneo Company, a private trading concern to whom Dent transferred his rights, did not and could not acquire dominion and sovereignty over North Borneo; that their rights were those indicated in the basic contract, namely, that of a lessee and a mere delegate; that in accordance with established precedents in International Law, the assertion of sovereign rights by the British Crown in 1946, in complete disregard of the contract of 1878 and their solemn commitments, did not and cannot produce results in the form of a new title.

    The above-quoted opinion says it all. In a word, how could the British government bought Sabah from the British North Borneo Company when the latter did not own it? It must be remembered that pursuant to the 1878 contract, the Company as successor-in-interest of the original lesee Dent, merely had leasehold rights not ownership over Sabah. Nemo dat qued non habet. No one can give what he does not have. And what possible legal justification could they give of the fact that the Company had continue to pay annual rentals until 1946, and the British government its successor-in-interest, until 1963? These acts certainly do not speak of attributes that of an owner, as the British government would like us to believe. Clearly, the right of purchase as claimed by the British government has no adequate legal basis to support it for “it is given with her feet planted in midair” so to speak. Again, let me quote the opinion of Dr. Laurel, viz;

    The British North Borneo Company never owned Sabah and could never have sold it to the British government. The British government knew this all along. She, herself, had officially acknowledged the sovereignty of the Sultan of Sulu. Thus, if she really wanted to acquire Sabah legally, she should have acquired it from the real owner. Instead, she chose to acquire it from the Company. Necessarily, all she could acquire were leasehold rights which were all the Company had.

    The Philippine position boils down to this conclusion: since the British did not possess the rights of sovereignty and dominion over North Borneo, neither did Malaysia acquire such rights when the British Crown transferred Sabah to her.

  93. TonGuE-tWisTeD - March 9, 2013 12:56 am

    The article is from the blog of Chris Bonoan.
    http://chrisbonoan.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-sabah-question-revisited.html

  94. LCsiao - March 15, 2013 11:00 pm

    Nawala yung dalawang posts ko.

    Anyway, here’s a treatise by Alan Paguia:

    Sabah: Part of RP Baselines Law
    http://www.manilatimes.net/~manilati/index.php/opinion/columnist1/43432-sabah-part-of-rp-baselines-law

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